Have to open my mouth

[KarmaChameleon1337]

If I see a !!! to me it say's wake up and pay attention and I personally don't see it as friendly - now that is just how I see it.

That's how it's usually read for most people. I mean it IS exclaimation marks, meant to be either enthusiastic or mad.

 

[davthevieled]

This is an amazing thread, and this is how I see the issue...

People going onto the forums to either A) get help or B) show their new addition to their family are going to be a bit vulnerable (or should be assumed vulnerable) because they are hoping to be accepted and helped by the community that we are involved in. Not only does rudeness stop that timid member from joining, but it also leads to that member to possibly not take advice or gain the knowledge as they become absent from the forums. ALSO we lose valuable information from people who don't do things by the book (ie take from the wild a species that isn't readily available). Who knows what that member could have posted? Maybe a cute little video of him/her grabbing a fly mid flight or a cricket? Behavioral or communal querks that we wouldn't have known about prior. ANY bit of information, be it from a breeder or someone who just thought the little one was cute, is useful to the community.

Be kind, and they will show you kindness. Isn't that how we treat our chams even when they hiss? Why should we treat another human any other way ESPECIALLY when they are reaching out for help and admitting they are wrong?

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

This is an amazing thread, and this is how I see the issue...

People going onto the forums to either A) get help or B) show their new addition to their family are going to be a bit vulnerable (or should be assumed vulnerable) because they are hoping to be accepted and helped by the community that we are involved in. Not only does rudeness stop that timid member from joining, but it also leads to that member to possibly not take advice or gain the knowledge as they become absent from the forums. ALSO we lose valuable information from people who don't do things by the book (ie take from the wild a species that isn't readily available). Who knows what that member could have posted? Maybe a cute little video of him/her grabbing a fly mid flight or a cricket? Behavioral or communal querks that we wouldn't have known about prior. ANY bit of information, be it from a breeder or someone who just thought the little one was cute, is useful to the community.

Be kind, and they will show you kindness. Isn't that how we treat our chams even when they hiss? Why should we treat another human any other way ESPECIALLY when they are reaching out for help and admitting they are wrong?

That's not every case. Sometimes you can be nicer than a Sesame Street show yet they'll bite your head off over something THEY did wrong in their care.

 

[davthevieled]

That's not every case. Sometimes you can be nicer than a Sesame Street show yet they'll bite your head off over something THEY did wrong in their care.

In that case? Feed him/her to the dogs. If they have no respect for the animal they purchased, they can go rott for all I care.

 

[laurie]

In that case? Feed him/her to the dogs. If they have no respect for the animal they purchased, they can go rott for all I care.

They will not go rot! Now don't make me sit you down and give you a lecture. I am the biggest wimp in the world and often think i am being attacked when I am not. Also keep it mind a lot of people come on here and read posts before they ever join. Down playing now worried you are about what you are doing with your cham, may just mean you have read posts where someone got their head handed to them.

 

[DavidBuchan]

That's not every case. Sometimes you can be nicer than a Sesame Street show yet they'll bite your head off over something THEY did wrong in their care.

In that case? Feed him/her to the dogs. If they have no respect for the animal they purchased, they can go rott for all I care.

It's in these cases that we trust our wonderful, sweet mods ...........we always should try to play nice..........it's not our place to judge THEM, is it Karma?

 

[davthevieled]

They will not go rot! Now don't make me sit you down and give you a lecture. I am the biggest wimp in the world and often think i am being attacked when I am not. Also keep it mind a lot of people come on here and read posts before they ever join. Down playing now worried you are about what you are doing with your cham, may just mean you have read posts where someone got their head handed to them.

I meant the person not the cham! If the person themselves don't care for the animals I just have the least bit of care or compassion for the individual. I'm just a bit harsh with it

I put my chams before myself and my pride. If I am wrong with something husbandry wise, I would rather admit it before I fight someone over it. When I say let that person rot, I mean let them pay for the sin of letting their own pride become more important than the life of the one they bring with them!

 

[lindawaz]

That's not every case. Sometimes you can be nicer than a Sesame Street show yet they'll bite your head off over something THEY did wrong in their care.

At that point you give the advice nicely one more time if you can and go away from the post- constantly trying to prove yourself right does absolutely no good!

They have stopped listening to anything you could possibly be saying, they become defensive and the only thing you are doing at that point is building the amount of posts you have because no one is listening.

They may never admit they are wrong, they will never admit you are right so let it go and stop trying to drill home the point.

 

[Elizadolots]

To me, the ticket when dealing with a new person who's chameleon is in distress, is to assume they have been trying their best and tell them that. Over and over if necessary.

The context needs to be "I know you're doing what the store told you to do, but stores are often very ignorant of what chameleons need" not "You're wrong!"

It makes a huge difference.

Also, it is up to the person posting to try to keep the tone correct. We all understand that the internet is difficult at times. Tone is difficult. But a rule of communications is that it is the responsibility of the person sending the message to make sure it's correct.

If the message is misinterpreted then that is the fault of the person posting the message, not the person reading it.

That is actually not something I consider "arguable".

If you want to convey a message, it's your job to use the right medium, to use the right words, to use the right tone.

If people repeatedly tell you that your message is coming off as angry or hostile, then it is angry or hostile. It is up to you to change how you are perceived. You cannot expect them to change their perceptions because you later say "I didn't mean it that way, why would think that? Why are you so quick to judge me?" (or similar things)

 

[UrbanChameleon]

I'm fairly new to posting on the forum and figured I would comment. I had read the forum for months (millions of posts) before picking up my little guy. I distinctly remember being intimidated to even join the forum after seeing certain things. There are plenty great people on here.. that's a fact. But I also feel as if there are some people who rudely post just to do it. It's almost as if they go looking for mean things to say to people. It is obvious once you read their pasts posts. I'm very confident and also not new to owning reptiles. However, this is my first Chameleon. I have only had one person be blatantly rude to me even when I made an effort to play nice. Luckily, I had a couple of forum members PM me and let me know that he was a jerk and what I'm doing is perfectly okay. Sometimes when you aren't trying to take it to heart.. you do. And sometimes you can just brush it off and go about your day. No matter what the situation.. the person asking AND answering the question should be treated with respect. Everyone is here to help each other over something they love. We are a community. We need to keep in mind that we are all different and unique. Not every person (or cham) is the same. There is no ONE way to raise a chameleon. Of course you must provide everything he/she needs but also let people do things their way. If it is not harming the chameleon then don't insist they are wrong. Always watch out for peoples feelings. Especially if their cham is sick or dying. They did not wake up one day and think "Hmm.. I really want to do things the wrong way and kill my animal". They were given misinformation. Our world is not filled with a Chameleon owner on every block. They are not necessarily household animals and many pet stores know absolutely nothing about them. It's very sad but that is the way things are for now. Our community is here to change that. We are here to inform and share our love of Chameleons. You can be a new member like me, or a senior member. You can be 40 years old or 13. It doesn't matter. Treat everyone with respect even if you don't want to. You can save a chameleons life.

 

[UrbanChameleon]

One more thing..

Just because someone is new doesn't mean they are completely idiotic. I know it can be really annoying because some new members can be. I've definitely seen my fair share. Not idiotic in the way that they haven't been informed, but in the way that they don't want to be informed. People can be really selfish and immature. But just because you have had experience with people who have never owned a herp before and decided to buy a chameleon.. doesn't mean everyone is like that. You can genuinely tell when someone is making an effort or they just want to be told what they are doing is right.

Someone could be a Harvard Grad and still be new to the forum. Just saying..

 

[Elizadolots]

Nicely said.

 

[lindawaz]

Looks Like the majority of this thread agree. What is sad a lot of new people myself included resorted to PM's which means that information never became public so no one else can benefit from it. That is of course someone choses to share it again

The problem is definitely here.
HOW do we stop it when we see it happening

 

[DavidBuchan]

The problem is definitely here.
HOW do we stop it when we see it happening

We simply can't with new members. The best we can possibly do is put our own input in our own words, and try to cancel out any negativity by ignoring it and/or being nice. If you know someone already then you could mention it if you think there is misinterpretation going on......

Leave everything else to the mods. There are plenty of forums with bigger problems than this one......the internet lets anyone on it.......

 

[DavidBuchan]

If the message is misinterpreted then that is the fault of the person posting the message, not the person reading it.

That is actually not something I consider "arguable".

I agree with almost all of what you say, but just this part is totally "arguable"
You can't blame Nietzsche and Darwin for how badly the Nazis misunderstood them. You can't blame the great Prophets for the carnage wrought in their names.
And sometimes on this forum people are far too quick to call rudeness.......I always stand up for the little guy if I can......
The 'problem' runs both ways............that's just human nature

 

[Benton1576]

Just remember when posting, your not helping that person, no matter how nice they are or how much of a retard they might be, your helping their Chameleon.

 

[UrbanChameleon]

Looks Like the majority of this thread agree. What is sad a lot of new people myself included resorted to PM's which means that information never became public so no one else can benefit from it. That is of course someone choses to share it again

The problem is definitely here.
HOW do we stop it when we see it happening

We have to stand up for one another. If you see it happening politely inform the person that they are being rude and unreasonable. If enough people tell them that they are out of line.. they might get the hint. If they continue being rude then the people with authority on the forum should put a stop to it. It's just like bullying. If you watch someone bullying someone else, and do nothing about it, then you are an accessory. It might sound lame or stupid, but if we don't stand up for each other this will continue. The moderators simply can't fix everything. And people can be clever about it too. Just because they aren't cussing a person out doesn't mean they aren't hurting their feelings. Besides.. being a d-bag isn't going to make someone stop/change what they are doing. Most people learn this with age, although some do not. I'm 100% positive that there are plenty of people (seniors and regular members) on this forum who have done certain things and have had success, but yet wouldn't admit it on the forum for fear of being chewed out. You shouldn't have to send people PM's. Nobody else benefits from that. If you don't feel comfortable calling someone out in a thread, send them a PM and let them know they are being unreasonable. You do not have authority to say whatever you want, however you want to, just because you have been here longer than another member. Lets all have common courtesy and respect for one another. And if you see someone disrespecting someone else.. kindly/firmly tell them they are in the wrong, contact a moderator, PM the person. If we all sit by and ignore it that means we are apart of it. Stand up for what you believe in.

 

[Elizadolots]

I agree with almost all of what you say, but just this part is totally "arguable"
You can't blame Nietzsche and Darwin for how badly the Nazis misunderstood them. You can't blame the great Prophets for the carnage wrought in their names.
And sometimes on this forum people are far too quick to call rudeness.......I always stand up for the little guy if I can......
The 'problem' runs both ways............that's just human nature

It's actually a "rule" of communication study. The communicator makes all the choices, so it is the responsibility of the communicator.

The Nazis did not misunderstand Darwin and Nietzsche, they deliberately cherry picked and twisted the messages to suit their own needs.

It's true that some are a bit quick to call rudeness. I'm of the opinion that if one is so sensitive the least bit of coolness is considered rude, that person would be better off avoiding the internet. But, such people are usually quickly recognized and hopefully people can resist being offended by their overly sensitive remarks and either clear up the confusion or step out of the thread.

Another important thing to consider is "is this a one time thing, or am I frequently being called rude?" If the former, maybe it is just an overly sensitive person, but if it's the latter, then sadly, I must conclude that my posts (whatever my intentions) are coming off as rude. I also need to recognize that when someone has been offended by my tone, me coming back with complaints about how bad and wrong they are for being offended is simply contributing to the problem.

It's like I tell my daughter: If you are concerned that people don't like you, yelling at them and telling them they're mean for not liking you isn't going to help solve your problem.

As to "standing up for the little guy"...by that I take it you mean younger posters who are, perhaps, more likely to post in a manner that comes off as offensive. I can't support that. There is no reason to assume a teenager cannot post politely.

 

[tdotcham]

In my other forums you can report posts to moderators by clicking a button on that post. Also, handing out one day bans on posting and gradually increasing would help.

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

in the upper right corner there is an...omgosh, hate to even type this now... an !, you can report an abusive post. What I am not sure about, is whether your "name" is attached to that report or not.
I actually wanted to contact Laurie about this last night, but didnt see her on and wasnt about to bug her on a Sat night with something of small importance