Have to open my mouth

[Olimpia]

I think we fall into the habit of posting info/advice for the sake of doing it. We're bored, we're on the forum, we see info, and post a reply. But we don't take the time we should, perhaps, sometimes, to add in the niceties.

I have to remind myself to look at the number of posts - is this the person's first post? Oh! "Welcome to the forum!" Something like that, the little things that create a friendly community feeling.

I see a lot of people post advice in a way like this:

"First, NO waterfall! They breed bacteria.
Also WAY TOO MUCH supplement with D3. Should be twice a month.
And go buy a new UV light RIGHT NOW!!!"

And this drives me nuts. It's sooooo vague (I've made threads urging people to be more detailed) and it just comes off all judgemental, even if it's not intended. People are more likely to listen to advice if there is logic behind it. So explain gently WHY too much D3 is bad, why the waterfall might not be the best idea, etc. Don't just go "NO this, NO that!!!" I think it comes off as kinda... eh. But they're not wrong, or necessarily rude, so it's mean to point it out to that poster. In my opinion, anyhow.

How do we fix it? I don't know, hopefully by reminding people with threads like this every once in a while.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

It's actually a "rule" of communication study. The communicator makes all the choices, so it is the responsibility of the communicator.

The Nazis did not misunderstand Darwin and Nietzsche, they deliberately cherry picked and twisted the messages to suit their own needs.

It's true that some are a bit quick to call rudeness. I'm of the opinion that if one is so sensitive the least bit of coolness is considered rude, that person would be better off avoiding the internet. But, such people are usually quickly recognized and hopefully people can resist being offended by their overly sensitive remarks and either clear up the confusion or step out of the thread.

Another important thing to consider is "is this a one time thing, or am I frequently being called rude?" If the former, maybe it is just an overly sensitive person, but if it's the latter, then sadly, I must conclude that my posts (whatever my intentions) are coming off as rude. I also need to recognize that when someone has been offended by my tone, me coming back with complaints about how bad and wrong they are for being offended is simply contributing to the problem.

It's like I tell my daughter: If you are concerned that people don't like you, yelling at them and telling them they're mean for not liking you isn't going to help solve your problem.

As to "standing up for the little guy"...by that I take it you mean younger posters who are, perhaps, more likely to post in a manner that comes off as offensive. I can't support that. There is no reason to assume a teenager cannot post politely.

I've seen people assume that just because they're a teen that they're posting rudely, even on these forums.

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

there is a difference between the chronological ages. When I was growing up, we never spoke to or about out parents the way I see younger people speak to or about them. I also grew up being told you get more with honey than vinegar. I, as an older person take offense to some of the posts here by gererally younger people( I would like to quantify it is only 1 person that I find offense on a regular basis). Maybe its just a generational thing, you have been raised with so much more media, internet, txting that the art of communication is getting lost. Being polite doesn't seem to be as necessary anymore, which I find is sad. My son is the only 5 yo around us that must address an elder properly, shake a hand, answer a question when spoken to. not back talk, or be rude, mean or insulting to those around him.

Just because it is ok in your world, doesn't justify how it comes across to others.

Before we go on the attack, take a moment as Olimpia suggested, and think about what is being said, and how the other person might take it.

The other day, a new member clearly in distress asking for help, was admonished for things at that moment were uncalled for. The cham was dying, telling them at that moment their husbandry was off, did nothing to help, unless it made the poster feel better to beat someone up while they were already down

I take the exclamation point to heart and will not use it again, I looked it up, and while it was the farthest thing from my intention, I will not use it again

 

[tdotcham]

Dude read your signature. If you present yourself in a certain manner, you will certainly be treated that way. I think the largest issue at hand is alot of people place themselves on this large pedastel and think they bark orders at people who they feel have less knowledge.

I think if people posted more open minded and took a step back it would clear issues that you always see arise in forums like these

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

tdot, is this meant for me?
anne

 

[DavidBuchan]

It's actually a "rule" of communication study. The communicator makes all the choices, so it is the responsibility of the communicator.
"rule" needs to be in inverted commas here - that's a dumbass rule . The reader makes choices and has their own attitude too. No writer has control of the message once it's out there......
The Nazis did not misunderstand Darwin and Nietzsche, they deliberately cherry picked and twisted the messages to suit their own needs. Surprisingly, some Nazis weren't evil, and just got stuff wrong (non deliberately). Lots of non-nazis misunderstand Darwin too. This is not Darwins fault, surely?

It's true that some are a bit quick to call rudeness. I'm of the opinion that if one is so sensitive the least bit of coolness is considered rude, that person would be better off avoiding the internet. But, such people are usually quickly recognized and hopefully people can resist being offended by their overly sensitive remarks and either clear up the confusion or step out of the thread.
Hopefully true, unfortunately different in practice. It's just difficult to avoid getting drawn in, right?
Another important thing to consider is "is this a one time thing, or am I frequently being called rude?" If the former, maybe it is just an overly sensitive person, but if it's the latter, then sadly, I must conclude that my posts (whatever my intentions) are coming off as rude. I also need to recognize that when someone has been offended by my tone, me coming back with complaints about how bad and wrong they are for being offended is simply contributing to the problem.

It's like I tell my daughter: If you are concerned that people don't like you, yelling at them and telling them they're mean for not liking you isn't going to help solve your problem.
In general principles I think I'm with you all the way.........you explain it well but sometimes everyone needs to say 'That's not how I meant it, you misunderstood me' And sometimes a person gets a reputation for being rude that makes people read them wrong whatever they say......
As to "standing up for the little guy"...by that I take it you mean younger posters who are, perhaps, more likely to post in a manner that comes off as offensive. I can't support that. There is no reason to assume a teenager cannot post politely. You got me ......but what if there is a matter-of-fact post that is interpreted as offensive? The reader should always give the benefit of the doubt - and yes, especially to younger posters. After all they are more easily upset by this sort of thing than adults....unless the adult is an immature jerk

Bits in blue are mine.....its harder to read in blue than in red, but looks a lot calmer.....and its all jmho.....

 

[lindawaz]

Age does not matter. A rude post is a rude post. A yelling post is yelling, condescending is...... reinstating the same thing repeatedly even changing the wording will not improve the reception of it.

Most people can not accept more than three bad things they are doing wrong with out feeling attacked in anything, not just here.

IMO when someone asks for help on a specific issue- THAT is the issue to be addressed. First and for most they could care less about anything else except that issue.
Then if there are other issues pick only 2 more in order of importance on the safety of that Cham. That does not mean 6 people picking 3 things wrong totaling 18 in that one thread...

Once they have accepted the information and they say they fixed ....thanks! another one could be added to fix in a nice way again order of importance to the wellbeing of the Cham not a personal opinion but a true wellbeing.

 

[ataraxia]

I dont communicate well and my spouse tells me this on a regular basis. sometimes she gets all worked up and then im like what are you getting all worked up over then she tells me and then im like no no no thats not what i meant.

Point being what is particularly said can be taken good or bad. its just how the person perceives the message. sometimes i re read what i have written and think that sounded a little assholish but did not mean it like that.

We are all adults and with the amount of people young/old that come to this forums not everyone is going to be tickled with joy. If someone post something you may "think" is negative.... just leave it be and go on. If the op decides to take it personally.. that is in character. let the mods deal with it.

just today i saw a younger/newer member post a simple question (even though it did not directly pertain to the issue at hand but was still a valid question none the less) and a senior member which i believe is an adult start bashing the question.

we all have good and bad days. tomorrow a new comment will be taken wrong and then the next and then the next. threads like this are a complete waste of space.

 

[shaunaroxanne]

If someone is asking for help, give them credit. They care about their animal or they wouldn't be asking. Making them feel guilty for contributing to the illness will just stop them from asking questions in the future.

 

[DavidBuchan]

How do we fix it? I don't know, hopefully by reminding people with threads like this every once in a while.

I agree with all you say

......
Just because it is ok in your world, doesn't justify how it comes across to others.......
I take the exclamation point to heart and will not use it again, I looked it up, and while it was the farthest thing from my intention, I will not use it again

It's very easy to not even see how you come across, whatever your generation. I know you're lovely, so I never even noticed all your exclamation marks till now Surely this will help you to give others the benefit of the doubt?

Age does not matter. A rude post is a rude post. A yelling post is yelling, condescending is...... reinstating the same thing repeatedly even changing the wording will not improve the reception of it.

Of course age matters. I am much more able to understand how I come across now than I was when I was a child. So how do you define yelling when it's written down? Sometimes people use caps for emphasis, sometimes bold it, change colours or use italics (or exclamation marks). Sometimes people will choose to take that badly whichever method of emphasis is your own style.........sometimes an obviously silly joke in a sig will be taken as offensive, and sometimes comments about it will be picked up by people they were't intended for. Even tdotchams has been misunderstood on this very thread (oh irony of ironies)

 

[danibug23]

tdot, is this meant for me?
anne

This comment was not towards you Anne just like I said your one of the nicest people on this forum and I don't see why any rude comment would be towards you. I think he was pointing towards other people and their responses on the forum

 

[davthevieled]

Maybe a good little "rule" would be... Before you post, thing of how someone completely different will take that post and adjust. It is sometimes difficult to come off as kind on the internet, but it is easy to be a jerk. We are here for our love for chameleons, and as I said before... We deal with and love these animals which hiss and gape at any attempt to get close in some cases, why should we treat people with less kindness?

 

[Canny Chams]

i completely agree and apreciate this post. Peopl are so mean and direct and just plain aggressive sometimes, using words like neglect and stupid. Seriously they came here to learn, another thing, stop argueing on posts it scares them off and confuses them, just give your opinion dont argue over whos slightly different idea is wrong

 

[okiroo]

i completely agree and apreciate this post. Peopl are so mean and direct and just plain aggressive sometimes, using words like neglect and stupid. Seriously they came here to learn, another thing, stop argueing on posts it scares them off and confuses them, just give your opinion dont argue over whos slightly different idea is wrong

agreed. but no matter where we are in life someones going to be the "jerk." we as a people who all love this hobby just need to accept that were going to have our jerks and post nicely under what they have. or better yet we will get their first. im shrue the OP's wont appreciate the meaness but will feel better with our warmer welcomes and nicer more sympathetic anwsers. + even our jerks share a love in common with us. i try to remeber that and be nice to these people. at least they love and care for chams !

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

there is a difference between the chronological ages. When I was growing up, we never spoke to or about out parents the way I see younger people speak to or about them. I also grew up being told you get more with honey than vinegar. I, as an older person take offense to some of the posts here by gererally younger people( I would like to quantify it is only 1 person that I find offense on a regular basis). Maybe its just a generational thing, you have been raised with so much more media, internet, txting that the art of communication is getting lost. Being polite doesn't seem to be as necessary anymore, which I find is sad. My son is the only 5 yo around us that must address an elder properly, shake a hand, answer a question when spoken to. not back talk, or be rude, mean or insulting to those around him.

Just because it is ok in your world, doesn't justify how it comes across to others.




Before we go on the attack, take a moment as Olimpia suggested, and think about what is being said, and how the other person might take it.

The other day, a new member clearly in distress asking for help, was admonished for things at that moment were uncalled for. The cham was dying, telling them at that moment their husbandry was off, did nothing to help, unless it made the poster feel better to beat someone up while they were already down

I take the exclamation point to heart and will not use it again, I looked it up, and while it was the farthest thing from my intention, I will not use it again

People usually post the form for the reason of knowing what could have gone wrong, which leads to problem and solution. It has nothing to do with making anybody feel bad or kicking a dog when it's down.

@tdot, silly sigs are joking, and give you absolutely no basis on which to judge what they write in their actual posts.

 

[Olimpia]

@tdot, silly sigs are joking, and give you absolutely no basis on which to judge what they write in their actual posts.

I kinda have to disagree. If a man in a clown costume approaches you on the street and attempts to give you investment advice, would you take it?

Your signature and your avatar are your "face" on this forum. What you say on it reflects upon your person, I think. Not singling you out, but I think it's a fair assumption to make. Is it fair to the person? No, perhaps not, perhaps that street clown is making millions in stocks, but it's hard to take him seriously given what we see.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

I kinda have to disagree. If a man in a clown costume approaches you on the street and attempts to give you investment advice, would you take it?

Your signature and your avatar are your "face" on this forum. What you say on it reflects upon your person, I think. Not singling you out, but I think it's a fair assumption to make. Is it fair to the person? No, perhaps not, perhaps that street clown is making millions in stocks, but it's hard to take him seriously given what we see.

True, plenty of places do have different meanings for things as Dave pointed out, I think it's fair to ask how they mean it before biting their heads off.

 

[davthevieled]

I kinda have to disagree. If a man in a clown costume approaches you on the street and attempts to give you investment advice, would you take it?

Your signature and your avatar are your "face" on this forum. What you say on it reflects upon your person, I think. Not singling you out, but I think it's a fair assumption to make. Is it fair to the person? No, perhaps not, perhaps that street clown is making millions in stocks, but it's hard to take him seriously given what we see.

Not only that, but I think it is a great example of how differently two people can take things. Not to say anything bad in the direction of Karma because I did have a laugh the first time I read her sig, some people will take a joke poorly or take kind advice as a lecture about how bad you are.

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

great analogy, I might rethink my sig

 

[chendy]

lindawaz, sontigerpanthercham, to the both of you i want to thank you for your remarks on this current issue. everything you said i have been wanting to express but was too frustrated to say it in a friendlier way.
so thanks again for this thread.