Help! What could this be?
- Thread starter deadhd5
- Start date
ChameleonMom
New Member
So sorry to hear that Reggie is causing some concern with some unexplained health issues and hope with all my heart that you can eventually chalk it up to an unexplained mystery and have him back to his regular self in the near future. Sending best wishes to Reggie and also condolences on the recent loss of your Father-in-law.
Sometimes uric acid levels can be falsely elevated if the blood sits around for a while waiting for the lab guy to pick it up from the vet, or if it gets too hot in transit, etc. they'll probably need a new sample to retest it accurately though because if the sample is altered then retesting it may get the same result. If it does come back high again just an fyi that gout can be present without joint swellings. Once there are joint swellings the disease is in advanced stages. My guy Oscar has evidence of gout on his X-rays and pain in his joints but no swellings at all. He stills eats and drinks fine though.
It's great that the rest of his bloodwork is normal! And that he's still active and feeling good. Any change in his appetite?
Thanks for updating his thread for everyone to see!
So great to see health problems with follow up.
It's great that the rest of his bloodwork is normal! And that he's still active and feeling good. Any change in his appetite?
Thanks for updating his thread for everyone to see!
So great to see health problems with follow up.
Dr O
Veterinarian
and to add on to what Ferret said, there are two forms of gout: articular which is the classic formation of crystals in the joints, and visceral which is when the crystals form in the internal organs, primarily the heart, lungs, kidneys and liver. however, just a high uric acid reading by itself with no changes to the calcium/phosphorous ratio is usually just a spurious reading and not significant.
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Jay Sick
Avid Member
if i am correct as i have nursed hundreds of sick chams this is puke from respiratory inflammation i have seen it many times. The reason i say puke is because of the air bubbles in it. If you could get your hands on a nebulizer and some genocin if i spelled that rite that would clear that up unless it's a sever case were baytrils shots from vet would be a good step until such time raise temps and humidity steam showers are good to to loosen anything up lots of water too.
Out of curiosity do u see him huff and or puff and make noises when breathing and does his poo smell worse than other chams not sure how many you may have for a comparison
Out of curiosity do u see him huff and or puff and make noises when breathing and does his poo smell worse than other chams not sure how many you may have for a comparison
deadhd5
Avid Member
Thanks for the replies Dr O and Ferretinmyshoes.
The vet believes that the test results are an anomoly based on everything else he is seeing. The x-ray came in looking perfect, he is really mobile, and like Dr. O said the perfect calc/phos ratio.
The combination of values from the bloodwork have led the vet to diagnose Reggie with a kidney infection. Reggie is now on Baytril and has continued to drink readily and show relaxed healthy colors. He is not yet eating on his own, but he is getting nutrition by syringe every other day along with his medication.
After the antibiotic cycle I am hoping his appetite will come back, especially now that I have home bred land snails that are the perfect size for him
The vet believes that the test results are an anomoly based on everything else he is seeing. The x-ray came in looking perfect, he is really mobile, and like Dr. O said the perfect calc/phos ratio.
The combination of values from the bloodwork have led the vet to diagnose Reggie with a kidney infection. Reggie is now on Baytril and has continued to drink readily and show relaxed healthy colors. He is not yet eating on his own, but he is getting nutrition by syringe every other day along with his medication.
After the antibiotic cycle I am hoping his appetite will come back, especially now that I have home bred land snails that are the perfect size for him
deadhd5
Avid Member
Hi Jay, thanks for your input.
I have been wondering if the "puke" could be from aspirating water as a result of drinking too fast. I am thinking that perhaps the kidney infection caused increased dehydration and led to aspiration and then "puke". I say this because he shows no other signs of respiratory infection (no open mouth, no sounds when breathing, no huffing and puffing). His cage is pretty pimped out, 2 large reptibreezes bolted together with one cool wet side and one dryer warmer side. He also gets a weekly 30 min warm shower.
I will ask the vet about the nebulize and genocin, thanks for the tip. Hopefully if there is any infection present in his respiratory system, in addition to the kidney infection, the baytril will take it out.
winterbones
New Member
Thanks for the replies Dr O and Ferretinmyshoes.
The vet believes that the test results are an anomoly based on everything else he is seeing. The x-ray came in looking perfect, he is really mobile, and like Dr. O said the perfect calc/phos ratio.
The combination of values from the bloodwork have led the vet to diagnose Reggie with a kidney infection. Reggie is now on Baytril and has continued to drink readily and show relaxed healthy colors. He is not yet eating on his own, but he is getting nutrition by syringe every other day along with his medication.
After the antibiotic cycle I am hoping his appetite will come back, especially now that I have home bred land snails that are the perfect size for him
Hope he gets on okay! Just keep in mind Baytril can affect appetite pretty bad in chameleons
deadhd5
Avid Member
Well, some bad news to report.
I got Reggie back from the vet today and I was quite shocked at his appearance. He looked massively dehydrated (sunken eyes, shriveled/dry skin, etc). The vet didn't prepare me for how much he had declined since I brought him in. The vet mentioned he had a bad color, but nothing about the massive dehydration. For this and other reasons I will not be using this vet again in the future. That is all I will say about that out of respect for the fact that the vet seemed well intentioned.
The verdict from the vet was some type of kidney disease, but nothing specific based on a few readings from the blood work. He tried a few different antibiotics, but he has deteriorated rapidly. He is drinking water but still has deep sunken eyes and his eyes are closed most of the time. If he is still the same Monday (vet closed tomorrow) I am going to have him euthanized as I believe it is the humane thing to do at this point.
If anyone has any information on kidney diseases in chameleons, I would be interested to know what could have caused it. He was a Petsmart rescue, in pretty rough shape when I got him (you can see by his horns at what age his care improved) and he always had a few orange crystals in his urates despite proper hydration.
Here is a few pictures of Reggie when he was healthy in the small hope he will return to this form, or more likely in celebration of what a beautiful creature and friend he has been.
I got Reggie back from the vet today and I was quite shocked at his appearance. He looked massively dehydrated (sunken eyes, shriveled/dry skin, etc). The vet didn't prepare me for how much he had declined since I brought him in. The vet mentioned he had a bad color, but nothing about the massive dehydration. For this and other reasons I will not be using this vet again in the future. That is all I will say about that out of respect for the fact that the vet seemed well intentioned.
The verdict from the vet was some type of kidney disease, but nothing specific based on a few readings from the blood work. He tried a few different antibiotics, but he has deteriorated rapidly. He is drinking water but still has deep sunken eyes and his eyes are closed most of the time. If he is still the same Monday (vet closed tomorrow) I am going to have him euthanized as I believe it is the humane thing to do at this point.
If anyone has any information on kidney diseases in chameleons, I would be interested to know what could have caused it. He was a Petsmart rescue, in pretty rough shape when I got him (you can see by his horns at what age his care improved) and he always had a few orange crystals in his urates despite proper hydration.
Here is a few pictures of Reggie when he was healthy in the small hope he will return to this form, or more likely in celebration of what a beautiful creature and friend he has been.
little leaf
Avid Member
oh my gosh - I will pray for him - XXXX my fingers for him, and Olive sends her well wishes for him - if he is that bad, I know it is so very hard, but I am sure you will do the right thing ( but I sure hope he gets better ) I am so sad now - maybe now that he is with you again, he will recover. I love the pic of his eyeballs peaking from behind the vine - cute 
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh Eric, that is such sad news. I believe you need a better chameleon vet. Did this vet do bloodwork? I believe that kidney problems show up in bloodwork. It sounds like this vet or the caregivers there were not giving him the proper husbandry. Work with him tomorrow and see if you can bring him around. I will be praying for you and Reggie and know that you will do the right thing for him.
I don't want to make things more difficult in an already difficult situation...but I do not really agree with the diagnosis of kidney infection or disease. The way to diagnose kidney disease is to see an inverted calcium to phosphorus ratio (yours was totally normal), elevated uric acid (I still don't think that was an accurate value considering the cal to phos ratio), or physically enlarged or mineralized kidneys (can be seen on X-ray). An infection usually will cause an elevation in the white blood cell count. Kidney infections are pretty unusual in reptiles. As far as I can tell your vet did not find evidence of any of these things. So I'm not really sure where the supposed diagnosis came from. I of course do not have all of the information as I have not seen him personally, but based on what you're conveyed it doesn't really make sense. I have no doubt there is something nefarious going on with Reggie unfortunately, but I do not think it has been found yet. If it were advanced kidney disease enough to cause this bad of a decline the calcium to phosphorus ratio would not be normal. If you do elect to euthanize poor Reggie I would strongly encourage a full necropsy to try to determine what is at play internally.
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deadhd5
Avid Member
Thanks for the well wishes and input Cheryl, Jann, and Dayna.
Dayna, I completely agree it does not make sense. A similar thing happened with my first chameleon Gus (skin infection, followed by a stay at this vet and rapid decline after a variety of treatments). I suspect the vet was stumped and just tried a little of everything to see if anything worked, which is exactly what I told him I didn't want. I was hesitant from the beginning with this vet, but there are no other exotics in the area. He very well could be this ill from the variety of drugs fed/injected. I don't feel confident in the answer I got, but am out of options and short on time.
His blood was retested and the uric acid counts halved, but were still elevated. The vet said there was also an increase of immature red blood cells which led him to believe, in combo with the uric acid indicated kidney or liver disease. White cell counts were elevated. Cal/phos ratio normal.
This started off puzzling and has only gotten moreso. When I dropped him off he still had his eyes open during the day and appeared well hydrated. At this point I am going to try to make him comfortable in his home and hope for the best. He seems glad to be home and is not as emaciated after getting a good warm hand misting, but the eyes are still sunken and closed.
Dayna, I completely agree it does not make sense. A similar thing happened with my first chameleon Gus (skin infection, followed by a stay at this vet and rapid decline after a variety of treatments). I suspect the vet was stumped and just tried a little of everything to see if anything worked, which is exactly what I told him I didn't want. I was hesitant from the beginning with this vet, but there are no other exotics in the area. He very well could be this ill from the variety of drugs fed/injected. I don't feel confident in the answer I got, but am out of options and short on time.
His blood was retested and the uric acid counts halved, but were still elevated. The vet said there was also an increase of immature red blood cells which led him to believe, in combo with the uric acid indicated kidney or liver disease. White cell counts were elevated. Cal/phos ratio normal.
This started off puzzling and has only gotten moreso. When I dropped him off he still had his eyes open during the day and appeared well hydrated. At this point I am going to try to make him comfortable in his home and hope for the best. He seems glad to be home and is not as emaciated after getting a good warm hand misting, but the eyes are still sunken and closed.
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Okay those results definitely help make a little more sense as to why infection is suspected. Without a diagnosis of which organ system is affected I would probably have tried antibiotics as well. I really hope he turns around for you.
little leaf
Avid Member
how is he today ? I thought about him all night
deadhd5
Avid Member
how is he today ? I thought about him all night
Hi Cheryl. Reggie looks a bit better this morning. If he looked 100% dehydrated yesterday, he is looking 50-60% dehydrated today. He opens his eyes when I am around, still has a very strong grip, and seems to get around well when I mist him. When I am not misting him he sits with his eyes closed about 75% of the time.
I am glad to see him looking a little better but am not getting my hopes up. There are moments when I am misting him that his eyes are open and full and he looks like the old Reggie, so I am not giving up on him yet either. I am going to continue to frequently mist him and maybe try to give him some bug juice.
I am on staycation from work all week, so I am going to keep a close eye on him the whole time and make sure he is not needlessly suffering.
little leaf
Avid Member
keep up the good work I am glad to hear he is a bit better - poor little guy is just worn out it sounds - but I know you will do all you can- its hard, I have been down this road but its so good you are home all week to tend him- I will sure keep the little guy in my prayers - keep us posted
I am glad to hear he is a bit better - poor little guy is just worn out it sounds - but I know you will do all you can- its hard, I have been down this road but its so good you are home all week to tend him- I will sure keep the little guy in my prayers - keep us posted
deadhd5
Avid Member
Just a quick update... Reggie is still hanging in there. Today he looks a little better than yesterday, and yesterday he looked a little better than the day before that. For that reason I am going to continue to hydrate him and also try to give him some bug juice.
I am still pessimistic, mostly because despite ample hydration he still has sunken eyes. He now seems to keep his eyes open more often than not, and his grip is very strong. He is fighting, so I am not giving up on him either.
I will keep you guys posted. I really appreciate all the support I have gotten here thus far.
I got a new camera for my birthday, so here is a shot of Reggie this morning. I wish I could capture him as his normal green happy self.
I am still pessimistic, mostly because despite ample hydration he still has sunken eyes. He now seems to keep his eyes open more often than not, and his grip is very strong. He is fighting, so I am not giving up on him either.
I will keep you guys posted. I really appreciate all the support I have gotten here thus far.
I got a new camera for my birthday, so here is a shot of Reggie this morning. I wish I could capture him as his normal green happy self.
