Is he chubby?
- Thread starter CharlieWhiskey
- Start date
I am wondering if Lou is chubby or if there’s a problem? His chest has this blob on it. It’s not hard, quite squishy in fact.
CharlieWhiskey
Member
Hmm so what is the supplement that most commonly causes the issues? I know there’s a form for it but not sure where.
Lt.WorfReportingForDuty
Established Member
@CharlieWhiskey is this blob new or has it been gradually coming on? He does look overweight based on his cask bulging out. Chameleon academy has some info on it. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-obesity/
CharlieWhiskey
Member
Gradually
janjan20
Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi, just following up to my question about your supplement schedule. I looked back at your past posts and could not find a husbandry post to reference. Just want to make sure you cover all the bases before assuming he is just overweight. If the edema is a supplement issue it is typically an easy fix.
As others have already pointed out yes he is overweight you can tell by his casque. But the blob your talking about on the upper chest throat area is edema. Essentially the build up of fluid. This can be seen with over supplementation of fat soluble vitamins, Giving too much oral bee pollen, and can be seen with chams that are having organ function issues. Being overweight does compromise a chameleon and can create reduced organ function.
So essentially we would start out reviewing exactly what your supplements are and how often you are using them. This would ID if the edema was related to supplements.
Addressing the weight would be knowing how often your feeding and how many feeders each feeding. Along with what sized feeders your giving. Then taking that and reducing it down. Weight loss is a slow and gradual thing which takes some time to see reflected in their body condition.
So essentially we would start out reviewing exactly what your supplements are and how often you are using them. This would ID if the edema was related to supplements.
Addressing the weight would be knowing how often your feeding and how many feeders each feeding. Along with what sized feeders your giving. Then taking that and reducing it down. Weight loss is a slow and gradual thing which takes some time to see reflected in their body condition.
CharlieWhiskey
Member
CharlieWhiskey
Member
He gets the repti calcium no D each feeding and the repcal twice a month
Ok so unfortunately the edema would not be related to over supplementation of fat soluble vitamins. As your herptivite actually does not contain D3 or A. Both being very important for cham health but the lack of these would not cause edema either. But he is not getting what he needs with this supplement. This would need to be changed out for something like repashy calcium plus LoD version then given 2 times a month.
Further more if your not giving oral bee pollen this puts us back to what internally is causing the edema.
So with him being overweight this would then indicate to me a link. You can get him into a vet and have blood work run. My worry would be compromised renal function.
Unfortunately this is not something that a simple husbandry correction recommendation would correct and my advice is getting him in with a good reptile vet.
Should you want to take a look at his diet to help reduce weight please provide the info requested above about your feeding info.
Further more if your not giving oral bee pollen this puts us back to what internally is causing the edema.
So with him being overweight this would then indicate to me a link. You can get him into a vet and have blood work run. My worry would be compromised renal function.
Unfortunately this is not something that a simple husbandry correction recommendation would correct and my advice is getting him in with a good reptile vet.
Should you want to take a look at his diet to help reduce weight please provide the info requested above about your feeding info.
CharlieWhiskey
Member
CharlieWhiskey
Member
I have been feeding him every other day. He is very picky(which is probably my fault) and I have finally gotten him to eat his Dubias again 
. I currently have the 5/8" and 3/4". For a while I could only get him to eat hornworms which was a pain but I was worried he wouldn't eat. He is also a pain about water. He only wants to drink from a syringe. I have been dripping it on the leaves and he has somewhat started to drink off the leaves. He has a dripper and a mister so maybe he drinks from those when I'm not looking?
He is on a much better diet now. He will eat around 5-7 of the smaller dubias every other day. Depending on his mood he might eat a superworm or waxworm also. Then he gets a hormworm for dessert. He gets a couple wax worms in his feeder along with a couple super worms but theres a 50% chance he'll eat them.. I wasn't aware of bee pollen at all
. Does one of the Repashy supplements include it?
I am working on possibly buying a Mistking and other items including a camera from another member.
Thank you again for all your help. I keep thinking I know what I'm doing since I have done so much research but then realize I have so much more to learn.
. I currently have the 5/8" and 3/4". For a while I could only get him to eat hornworms which was a pain but I was worried he wouldn't eat. He is also a pain about water. He only wants to drink from a syringe. I have been dripping it on the leaves and he has somewhat started to drink off the leaves. He has a dripper and a mister so maybe he drinks from those when I'm not looking?He is on a much better diet now. He will eat around 5-7 of the smaller dubias every other day. Depending on his mood he might eat a superworm or waxworm also. Then he gets a hormworm for dessert. He gets a couple wax worms in his feeder along with a couple super worms but theres a 50% chance he'll eat them.. I wasn't aware of bee pollen at all
. Does one of the Repashy supplements include it?I am working on possibly buying a Mistking and other items including a camera from another member.
Thank you again for all your help. I keep thinking I know what I'm doing since I have done so much research but then realize I have so much more to learn.
CharlieWhiskey
Member
Would edema cause him to close his eyes during the day too?
Yes, these are the two I prefer.
For a healthy male 3-5 every other day is fine. But when they start holding weight you want to take them down to 3-5 max every 3 days. For example my boy gains if on every other day feeding. He only is fed 2 days a week of 3-4 insects to control his weight so he does not gain. And feeder size for dubia would be 1/2 inch size. No superworms and no waxworms both are fatty feeders.I have been feeding him every other day. He is very picky(which is probably my fault) and I have finally gotten him to eat his Dubias again
He is on a much better diet now. He will eat around 5-7 of the smaller dubias every other day. Depending on his mood he might eat a superworm or waxworm also. Then he gets a hormworm for dessert. He gets a couple wax worms in his feeder along with a couple super worms but theres a 50% chance he'll eat them.. I wasn't aware of bee pollen at all
I am working on possibly buying a Mistking and other items including a camera from another member.
Thank you again for all your help. I keep thinking I know what I'm doing since I have done so much research but then realize I have so much more to learn.
Not having bee pollen is not the end of the world. It is just another additive but it can be over supplemented. No repashy to my knowledge does not contain it.
Getting him drinking is important especially if you are seeing signs of dehydration in the urates. try putting ice cubes on the top screen over plants below. Might trigger a drinking response. Lack of proper hydration can cause issues with kidney function.
So edema is the physical sign of an internal issue. Something being out of balance or not working properly. Closing the eyes is another physical sign that something is off within the body. Yes, you can see both especially if there is something internal going on such as kidney function or even heart function is decreased. So a vet appointment and blood work is what I would start with. Because both of these physical signs together suggest that something is off and needs to be addressed.
CharlieWhiskey
Member
Would it be better to just stick to dubia, horn worms and silk worms for his diet? I have the powdered horn worm food and dubia diet pellets from dubia.com. Should I be feeding something else?
I'm not sure why he stopped drinking from leaves at one point
. I only started using a syringe as I was worrying he wasn't getting enough water. I'm looking at getting a Wyze camera so hopefully I can see him drinking. I know the horn worms help with hydration but I want to make sure he doesn't start wanting to eat just those again.
I have tried twice to use real plants but both times the fungus gnats were ridiculous. Not to mention my cage doesn't have a drainage tray.
Thank you!
I'm not sure why he stopped drinking from leaves at one point
. I only started using a syringe as I was worrying he wasn't getting enough water. I'm looking at getting a Wyze camera so hopefully I can see him drinking. I know the horn worms help with hydration but I want to make sure he doesn't start wanting to eat just those again.I have tried twice to use real plants but both times the fungus gnats were ridiculous. Not to mention my cage doesn't have a drainage tray.
Thank you!
So yes because soft bodied feeders will have a higher moisture content and combining with Dubia will balance the food so he does not end up with loose stools.Would it be better to just stick to dubia, horn worms and silk worms for his diet? I have the powdered horn worm food and dubia diet pellets from dubia.com. Should I be feeding something else?
I'm not sure why he stopped drinking from leaves at one point
I have tried twice to use real plants but both times the fungus gnats were ridiculous. Not to mention my cage doesn't have a drainage tray.
Thank you!
The concern about him drinking from the syringe is it shows desperation to drink. Because chams innately do not drink in front of people. They tend to be very shy about this. So you do not want him learning this either because he now becomes dependent on you for all water intake.
Even if he wants only hornworms or only silkworms it is not the end of the world because they are not fatty feeders. And he is overweight. Silkworms may be a better option as you can control their growth better than hornworms.
Fungus gnats are part of new plants. No matter what you do if you use soil straight out of the bag this is something that comes with it. And then there is about a 3-6 month cycle and they are gone. you can however bake your soil on a low temp to kill off any soil gnat eggs that may be in there.
You need a drainage tray if nothing else to ensure your not having water damage to your home. Also it allows you to mist long enough to really provide enough water to trigger a drinking response. Something like this works well. You can cap off the hose adapter or add tubing to it to drain if you set the tray at an angle so that is slopes to the front. amazon link for drainage tray
CharlieWhiskey
Member
- So I was able to order the Repashy LoD that will be delivered today. I can't find the Repashy NoD without shipping taking until the beginning of February. Any recommendations? A lot of the sites also want $9-10 dollars to ship it.
- I will look into the drip tray. My cage is this one https://www.wayfair.com/pet/pdp/reptizoo-55-gallons-terrarium-rptz1029.html. I'll see if I can possibly cut the glass to make a hole for the hose. Looking back it was a bad purchase. Was just on a budget and couldn't find any hybrid cages that had drip tray areas for my price range.
- I have updated my misting schedule to every 8 hours for 2 minutes. My mister doesn't have a setting for more than 2 minutes.
- I was also looking into reptile insurance and saw previous posts that it worked well for others. Do you still think it's a good idea? I'd love to not pay so much!
- I am going to order more hornworms, dubia and see if I can find silk worms. I know a lot of sites are holding shipping due to freezing temps. Should I get some Repashy bug burger? I know silkworms only eat the silkworm food and carrots in a pinch. Do they also eat the bug burger?
- Is it necessary to have live plants? Louie has never tried to eat any of it and I don't leave feeders in there that would try to munch on the leaves. Is there an option besides bagged soil that would be better? If I did bake the soil to kill the eggs would the gnats start at some point on their own(not from the starting soil but an outside source)?
- If needed, I have the husbandry form filled out since I haven't completed one previously.
I buy mine on amazon. I would just buy it where ever and keep using your plain no D3 until you get it.
I did not realize you had that kind of cage. Note with cutting the glass, I have seen these break the panel. So you could buy a wet vac instead. and wet vac the bare bottom of the cage.
2 minutes is better than a shorter period. Just add a dripper.
So reptile insurance is either really good or not worth it depending on the luck you end up with lol. This is the one typically purchased. https://www.petinsurance.com/exotics/lizards-reptiles-frogs/
Just note you pay the bill upfront to the vet then provide the receipt to nationwide and they reimburse you. Keep in mind they will not cover any prior issues that the vet has seen the cham for.
Framschams always has silkworms and great pricing.
Bug burger is good for dubia not silkworms. Silks and hornworms need their own specific chow.
So the live plant controversy... I think of it this way and I may sound stupid... to me fake plastic plants for my cham is the equivalent of me sleeping and sitting on plastic sheets and plastic covered furniture. I would not want to do that so I do not think my cham would prefer hard plastic over real plants. Also real plants help balance humidity and keep the air cleaner. I use the happy frog organic soil. @MissSkittles has baked soil and can tell you specifics on that. But no you would not end up with more gnats later unless you brought in new plants. I literally have not seen fungus gnats in years. Took about 4 months after I moved for them to all die off and not one since.
You are always more than welcome to post your husbandry form at any time for a member to give you a review. @MissSkittles and I tend to be the ones that go through them but other members are starting to join in on the fun.
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
I had to bake my soil because (living in Florida) I found roaches had set up house in the bag. This is the first and only time I’ve ever baked my soil. I feel like it kills all of the good things and nutrition in the soil. If you opt to do this, get some large disposable baking trays or cover yours with foil. Put the soil on in a layer about 2-3” inches deep and bake at 200F for about 30 minutes, or until the innermost temp reaches 180-200 max. I actually had to boost my oven temp to 325F because 200 wasn’t doing it for me. I did read something that if you overheat the soil, something in it can become toxic, so do use care.
I do get soil gnats and with 5 double sized (most are bioactive) chameleon enclosures, it can get pretty bad. I’ve tried several different ways to eliminate them - hatching mantis ooths is the most fun for me and my chameleons, Katchy devices, drosera capensis sundew plants, hanging sticky pads everywhere and finally resorted to Mosquito Bits. The Mosquito Bits are what finally got rid of them and it’s safe for chameleons and even my isopods. Just don’t water the leaves of your plants, but only the soil.
I do get soil gnats and with 5 double sized (most are bioactive) chameleon enclosures, it can get pretty bad. I’ve tried several different ways to eliminate them - hatching mantis ooths is the most fun for me and my chameleons, Katchy devices, drosera capensis sundew plants, hanging sticky pads everywhere and finally resorted to Mosquito Bits. The Mosquito Bits are what finally got rid of them and it’s safe for chameleons and even my isopods. Just don’t water the leaves of your plants, but only the soil.
