male panther eye problem & lost grasping ability

[dawnjelly]

species: male panther, probably between 1 to 1.5 years old. Ive had him 2 weeks now.
handling: Ive had to handle him at least twice daily to give eye drops, hand feed him, sometimes clean off messy poop.
feeding: reptaboost and sometimes throw in a couple waxworms when Ive got his mouth open. he has zero interest in hunting or drinking on his own.
supplements: i should think he gets a fair amount of vitamins from the reptaboost.
watering: mist several times a day, also use a humidifier. he will not drink though.
fecal: sometimes pretty runny, most of the time though it will be an olive green colored lima bean looking thing.
History: this chameleon was originally owned by my friend and her boyfriend. I saw the chameleon in december, he was healthy, however there was only one small plastic branch of leaves directly under heat lamp and the rest of the cage was empty except for the bottom was littered with egg crates from the crickets. No other plants or decor of any sort in the cage. A few weeks later my friend stopped going in the room to take care of the chameleon because she was too scared after one of her boyfriends rattlesnakes got

loose. Then the chameleon got sick, his eyes shut and he couldnt see to eat or drink. My friend would wipe his eyes but he didnt get any better. After a couple weeks of that she was at a loss so she gave the chameleon to me. I have no idea if she was supplementing his food, i only know she gave him crickets. i also assume humdity level was low.

cage type: the medium reptibreeze he came to me in.
lighting: i have a heat lamp on top but he cant climb at all so I rigged one up on one lower side. he seems to appreciate it as he goes over to hang out by it. and then a full spectrum light at top.
temp: i manage to keep temp at level suggested for panthers no problem.
humidity: my house has terrible humidity so I mist often and aim a humidifier at his cage. he likes the mist provided by the humidifier and usually stays close to it.
plants: a bunch of fake plastic plants but he cant climb right now.
placement: hes in my room where it doesnt get too cold.
location: california bay area.
problem: took him to a vet who sees exotic pets but is not a reptile specialist. he flushed the eyes and gave a vitamin injection. he prescribed an ointment for conjunctivitis. when i brought him in only his eyes werent working, but when I got him home he was drained of energy, hemipene was stuck out, and back legs were no longer working. I had to manually push the hemipene back in with lube myself. A couple days later I took him to a reptile specialist. He told me the chameleon does not have conjunctivitis but some other eye problem, prescribed a liquid eyedrop that contains anti inflammatories. There has been extremely little to almost no improvement to his eyes in the past ten days. The specialist removed some kind of wax secretion from the hemipene and said the wax was probably causing constipation which was causing pressure on sciatic nerve and the reason why his feet werent grasping. Well, he has since then pooped a few times but still has not regained grasping ability in his back feet. (front legs never had any problem by the way.) His back legs seem to be working a little better (he will bicycle them around when I feed him) but still no grasping ability in back feet whatsoever. The specialist tells me theres nothing else I can do but make sure his environment has correct conditions and just wait. But not even his eyes have had any improvement in all this time.... plus his colors have been abnormal ever since the day he lost grasping ability. if anyone has any advice whatsoever I would really appreciate it. Ive spent almost $500 at the vets so far and nothings helped the poor guy.

 

[Kate]

Hi welcome to the forum. Your little one does not appear to be in good shape. It also sounds as if his previous owners neglected him somewhat. It's good that you took over when you did. You need to be supplementing his food with plain calcium daily and calcium with d3 and multivitamin twice a month. Reptaboost is not an alternative . I'm surprised that the vet did not give him calcium injections. Forget the waxworms, they are pure fat and have very little nutrition. There are a few things you have not really answered on the form but we can get to them later. At the moment it is important to get food and drink into him. Can you make some bug juice? Squish up some crickets add a small amount of water and a tiny pinch of plain calcium and strain. Feed through a syringe. Make sure the syringe goes to the back of throat as a chams breathing tube is at the front of his mouth. Let us know how you get on.

 

[lancaster0861]

There are care sheets on these forums. Sorry I can't post them from my phone. You should check those out and get the basics set up. Proper temps, lighting, supplements. And feeding. Reptiboost is not a food. That along with the occasional waxworm will starve the Guy. Crickets will be a good start. Make sure you look at the gutloading portion. Hopefully the forums caresheets will help and give him a chance. Its a good thing your doing for him. His legs are probably not working just for the simple fact that his nutrition. His has been horrible and he's deteriorating. Same with his eyes. Once his nutrition. And overall husbandry is set up you should start seeing improvements.

 

[kinyonga]

Did he fall?

 

[dawnjelly]

an update on Ares.

I have read plenty of care sheets and own several chameleon books. the conditions in Ares' habitat are fine now. his cage is technically slightly too small for a panther, but as he cannot climb right now it doesn't matter. I have my own jackson's chameleon that I've had for almost a year, he is perfectly healthy, happy and active. if Ares had been mine to start with, he would be healthy, happy and active too. unfortunately he originally belonged to my friend, this was her 4th chameleon, every single one of her previous 3 died. 1 got lost, the other 2 got this very same eye problem, which went untreated, and they died. when she told me Ares got an eye problem and stopped eating, I can't exactly say I was shocked. Ares is the longest lived chameleon out of all the ones she's had, and when she asked me to take him, I immediately agreed.
so the specialist had told me it was a sciatic nerve problem that was causing his legs to have stopped working.. he said constipation could have caused the sciatica. but Ares is not constipated and never was. it is not sciatica. i will agree that the eye problem is caused by long term neglect from the original owners, long term improper supplementation, etc. the specialist had said the eye problem is from a vitamin A deficiency causing his nasal lacrimal ducts to be clogged. ok. but what about the legs? the legs are not working and it has nothing to do with sciatica. i would say perhaps metabolic bone disease or something similar, except for it's rather odd that the legs were working absolutely fine until I brought him to the first vet, and suddenly after the vet took him into the back, gave him a shot & dewormer, brought him back to me and the legs no longer worked from that point. and Ares is very sensitive if I touch the back left but not the back right leg. I changed the lightbulb to a brand new reptisun 10.0 which is supposed to help reverse MBD. haven't seen any improvement after a couple weeks, probably because it's not MBD. I swear that first vet did something wrong and caused his legs to stop working. his back feet cannot grasp at all. he tries and gets frustrated and gives up and most of the day is rather sedentary. the reptaboost has calcium, d3, etc so it in combination with the reptisun bulb should be helping him if was MBD.
I cannot give him live crickets, I've tried. he won't hunt because he can't see, and forcefeeding has become more difficult as he clamps his mouth shut as tight as he can now. he's not as cooperative as he was in the beginning. I tried feeding him some from a can of flukers moist crickets but that was entirely unsuccessful. he spat them out. I'm thinking of trying some freeze-dried crickets as they are much smaller, though there's not much point, as reptaboost IS food.
as for the assertion that reptaboost is not food and cannot take the place of insects, that is not true. a quote from fluker's about the product: "Specially formulated supplement provides energy and fluid support for malnourished and dehydrated reptiles. A complete nutritional supplement that can be used daily." more importantly, it also says this: "Unlike vitamin and mineral supplements which offer limited nutritional support, Repta+Boost is a complete supplement that includes protein, carbohydrates, fat, vitamins and minerals." well then, it includes everything a cricket provides, such as protein, etc. so it is food, and can take the place of food. if it couldn't, I don't think he'd still be alive today, after this many weeks of not eating insects.
the real problem here is not food, or conditions, as that stuff has already been fixed. the problem is 1) his eyes. the eyedrops did not help at all, vitamin supplementation (since specialist said its a vitamin A deficiency) has not helped at all. 2) his back feet. the legs can move, but the feet don't work, can't grasp. if it was MBD, they should have stopped working before my friend gave him to me, and not while the vet was giving him a shot and dewormer. if it was MBD, the calcium/d3/vitamins & reptisun 10.0 bulb should have helped reverse it by now. if anyone has had any experience with MBD, how many weeks did it take to reverse it?

 

[Video Master]

Seeing as how you are avoiding answering the questions with direct answers it is going to be very hard to help you out. You need to be as specific as possible. Like how often do you supplement? Is that the only supplement? They need calcium daily and D3 twice a month with multi vitamin twice a month as well. You can overdose on D3 so that should not be given every day. Post your temps in the cage, both the basking spot and the average temp in the cage. These are all very important things that you need to tell us if you want help.

Also the comment of things that you have read plenty of care sheets means nothing. Have you read the specific care sheets from this forum? These are sheets that have been made up from all the very experienced chameleon owners and vets that have been on this forum for a long time. They are here to help you out, but you need to be open to help and listen to what the experts tell you.

I linked the care sheet for panthers from this forum below.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

 

[EKEKO]

Rather than making this about OUR opinion let's focus on the chameleon at stake. Where in the bay area are you? Im in SF. I can suggest a very good vet here.

 

[carol5208]

Dawn, just so you know, if it is MBD, it cannot be reversed. There is no "cure" but it can be halted so it does not progress. here is a link for you to read up on MBD. https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

 

[dawnjelly]

for exact temps i will have to update later when I get home from school. but the chameleon cannot climb, falls if placed higher, and only walks around on bottom of cage. he cannot bask anymore ever since the day I took him to the first vet and he came home with back feet that no longer grasp. as for supplements like I said there is calcium and d3 and multivitamins in the reptaboost. its mixed together with water and fed by syringe. it is all I can get in him. I plan on trying freeze dried crickets soon, live ones wont work, canned moist ones didnt work, the bug juice the first commenter suggested did not work. on the reptaboost box it says it can be administered daily. without it he would have already starved by now its been weeks since the original owner first told me Ares was sick and had stopped eating. he has a new reptisun 10.0 bulb, on the box it says it helps to reverse MBD. I just read a story on this forum of someone who reversed MBD on a female veiled. seems like it takes a few months. Im just trying to figure out how long to keep nursing this chameleon, or is it better to give up. if his problem cant be cured or reversed then keeping him alive would just be cruel... he has a miserable life compared to a healthy chameleon. he cant see, cant feed himself, cant climb, cant grasp.... Ive already spent $500 on him and have run out of money..

 

[dawnjelly]

update on temps.
basking temp: 90°
rest of cage temp: 78°
humidity: 60-70%
I mist a few times a day and use a cool mist humidifier. the bulbs are brand new.

if I can manage to force feed freeze dried crickets I will dust with calcium. dont know if he will take it though last time I tried crickets he refused to swallow them and spat it all out.

 

[Video Master]

You need to STOP giving D3 every day. D3 should only be given 2 times a month. You can overdose on D3.