OntarioLizardman
New Member
This is just amazing, I can't wait till they are common place CB
CONGRATS!
CONGRATS!
Melleri baby pipped, Megana&Hercules' 1st!
- Thread starter Chameleons Northwest
- Start date
laurie
Retired Moderator
summoner12
Avid Member
Pat was... like 14g? I think? I had issues with him at first... I wasn't keeping him warm enough at night and he was losing a lot of weight... her went down to like 6g and I was in serious panic modeHe has recovered..... lol he is over 220g now... I haven't had him on the scale so ill go and do that.....
Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
6 so far.
A missionary family from the Philippines arrived yesterday to stay with us for a week, so I can't promise any photos today. But hopefully soon.
A missionary family from the Philippines arrived yesterday to stay with us for a week, so I can't promise any photos today. But hopefully soon.
laurie
Retired Moderator
Sandy do you & Elliott ever have any down time???
summoner12
Avid Member
prettykttkat
Established Member
Congrats again on your babies!!! They are so pretty! Wish I had room for a few, lol!
luevelvet
Avid Member
Those babies are just amazingly gorgeous. Good work and if the dates work out correctly, those babies may very well be siblings to our Mellers. We acquired the very last one Mike had from his groups that was born sometime in July, though I'm not sure how many WC females he took eggs from.
Keep up the good work and again, congratulations.
Luis
Keep up the good work and again, congratulations.
Luis
summoner12
Avid Member
how many are you up to now sandy?
chams1
Member
AJA
Established Member
Don't worry about making room because they are all mine.
Not if I don't get to them first <mwuaha ha haaaa>
Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
THIS IS A LENGTHY POST, BUT THIS IS AN "ADVANCED TOPICS" FORUM AND SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO SHARE AS MANY DETAILS AS POSSIBLE.
We have been incredibly busy this week with looking after our missionary family and daily conference meetings to attend. Then every evening we've been hosting parties here for many of the conference attendees.
Most all my spare time has been devoted to chameleon and gecko care. Mostly chameleon care, as geckos require very little care. I checked the Melleri eggs all day, at every opportunity. Moving the pipped eggs as I saw them. Our home is near the conference site so I was able to run home and take care of them often between events.
Not all the hatchlings did well. I tried several different scenarios:
1. letting them pip in the egg bin and wait til they emerge: was finding them stretched out across their egg, dead.
2. let them pip in the egg bin and then move them to another covered bin lined with slightly dampened paper towel in the incubation closet (in case the perlite was the problem- like if they accidentally ingested it): 0 survival rate
3. let them pip in the egg bin and then move them to another covered bin lined with slightly dampened paper towel in a cooler area (in case temp (76f) was the problem): poor survival rate.
4. let them pip in the egg bin and immediately move them (while only their noses were visible at the pipped opening) to the neonate bin with its vines and plastic plants: good survival rate- 12 out of 14 that were handled this way. Fortunately I did most of them with this method. But this seemed very risky to me for the following reasons:
a. in the neonate bin they are in a lighted situation, which can stimulate the pipped chameleon to emerge from the egg before finishing its yolk sack. This seemed like a terrible idea, but for some reason it worked better than the other methods. A few of them remained with their egg until the yolk sack was depleted.
b. when the cham emerges with unfinished yolk sack attached it is at risk of ripping it off, tearing the umbilical cord on a branch and bleeding to death. They did leave their eggs and sacks hanging on branches but their umbilicus areas are healing fine.
c. by not finishing the yolk they are starting life without that last meal and the nutrients it offered. We will have to wait and see whether they will thrive in spite of this. I would say that most absorbed at least some of their yolk.
The white eggs did better than the dark (poorly calcified) eggs. It is possible that the ones that died would have died regardless of any circumstances, but we will never know. The fact that the mother possibly suffered from poor lighting during gestation (see earlier remarks) may have something to do with it. Or an incubation problem. Or perhaps the poorly calcified egg shells were unable to properly perform at the end of the incubation period.
We are currently blessed with 12 good looking little Meller's climbing about their vines, and 3 more eggs waiting to pip.
We have been incredibly busy this week with looking after our missionary family and daily conference meetings to attend. Then every evening we've been hosting parties here for many of the conference attendees.
Most all my spare time has been devoted to chameleon and gecko care. Mostly chameleon care, as geckos require very little care. I checked the Melleri eggs all day, at every opportunity. Moving the pipped eggs as I saw them. Our home is near the conference site so I was able to run home and take care of them often between events.
Not all the hatchlings did well. I tried several different scenarios:
1. letting them pip in the egg bin and wait til they emerge: was finding them stretched out across their egg, dead.
2. let them pip in the egg bin and then move them to another covered bin lined with slightly dampened paper towel in the incubation closet (in case the perlite was the problem- like if they accidentally ingested it): 0 survival rate
3. let them pip in the egg bin and then move them to another covered bin lined with slightly dampened paper towel in a cooler area (in case temp (76f) was the problem): poor survival rate.
4. let them pip in the egg bin and immediately move them (while only their noses were visible at the pipped opening) to the neonate bin with its vines and plastic plants: good survival rate- 12 out of 14 that were handled this way. Fortunately I did most of them with this method. But this seemed very risky to me for the following reasons:
a. in the neonate bin they are in a lighted situation, which can stimulate the pipped chameleon to emerge from the egg before finishing its yolk sack. This seemed like a terrible idea, but for some reason it worked better than the other methods. A few of them remained with their egg until the yolk sack was depleted.
b. when the cham emerges with unfinished yolk sack attached it is at risk of ripping it off, tearing the umbilical cord on a branch and bleeding to death. They did leave their eggs and sacks hanging on branches but their umbilicus areas are healing fine.
c. by not finishing the yolk they are starting life without that last meal and the nutrients it offered. We will have to wait and see whether they will thrive in spite of this. I would say that most absorbed at least some of their yolk.
The white eggs did better than the dark (poorly calcified) eggs. It is possible that the ones that died would have died regardless of any circumstances, but we will never know. The fact that the mother possibly suffered from poor lighting during gestation (see earlier remarks) may have something to do with it. Or an incubation problem. Or perhaps the poorly calcified egg shells were unable to properly perform at the end of the incubation period.
We are currently blessed with 12 good looking little Meller's climbing about their vines, and 3 more eggs waiting to pip.
Last edited:
chams1
Member
Sandy:
Thanks so much for providing us with such detailed information! Although it is sad to lose the ones you did, we have to remember that this is a learning process for us all with this species and doing what worked for another, just may not work for someone else, given the climate differences and other factors. However, it is great that you are detailing all of this for everyone else who hopes to follow in your footsteps (i.e. Newbie and 2 clutches of infertile eggs so far). Regardless of how long and how well we have kept them, we are all still learning these these large wonderful chams.
Just out of curiosity (and this may be a dumb question...), did you talk to Mike as to how he hatched all of his out (i.e. temps, pipping, etc.)? Again, there is a significant climate difference between you too, but .....
Thanks so much for providing us with such detailed information! Although it is sad to lose the ones you did, we have to remember that this is a learning process for us all with this species and doing what worked for another, just may not work for someone else, given the climate differences and other factors. However, it is great that you are detailing all of this for everyone else who hopes to follow in your footsteps (i.e. Newbie and 2 clutches of infertile eggs so far). Regardless of how long and how well we have kept them, we are all still learning these these large wonderful chams.
Just out of curiosity (and this may be a dumb question...), did you talk to Mike as to how he hatched all of his out (i.e. temps, pipping, etc.)? Again, there is a significant climate difference between you too, but .....
Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
We did talk to Mike about incubation,temps, and care of neonates. I think his hatchlings pipped and emerged normally. But his eggs were all well calcified from WC females eating their normal WC diet. They laid their eggs within days of importation. So my gutload may be an issue, too. In Megana's bloodwork the only value that was off was iron. her calcium levels were good, buyt she appeared anemic, which the vet said never appears in reptiles. I changed my dry gutload formula after that finding, adding a significant amount of dried leafy green stuff.
I think one of the things I did differetnly was use perlite, instead of vermiculite, not a bright idea in retrospect, but don't know if it really caused a problem. I just prefer perlite, and the Melleri Discovery website did show a photo of Meller's emerging from eggs in perlite. Mike used vermiculite.
I think one of the things I did differetnly was use perlite, instead of vermiculite, not a bright idea in retrospect, but don't know if it really caused a problem. I just prefer perlite, and the Melleri Discovery website did show a photo of Meller's emerging from eggs in perlite. Mike used vermiculite.
Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
Time to clean the bin, so we had a photo op. First photo shows all 12 on a branch. They are already pooping! Didn't look like egg-poop, either. Looks like they're already eating. Yay! There were some nice round bellies, too.
prettykttkat
Established Member
What was her calcium levels? Did you get total calcium levels or ionised calcium levels?
Cainschams
New Member
Great information in your earlier post!! Those babies are amazing!!!! They look so cool!!! I hope they all do really well for you!!
They look so cool!!! I hope they all do really well for you!!
Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
Oh, I'm glad you asked because I pulled out the results sheet and it is her glucose that was high, and the vet said that reptiles never have blood sugar problems but that the intense stress she was under that week may have contributed to that reading. (Just an interesting side note.)
The calcium was 15.4 and the phosphorus ws 5.6. So the ratio was a bit high on the calcium side. Don't know if these were total or ionised. We believe the poor egg calcification may have been due to the on-again off-again lighting setting in their room. On warmest days the lights were off for significant periods.
There was an exotic review comment regarding the blood readings: "Occasional heterophils have slightly more cytoplasmic basophilia suggesting slight toxic change. Is there a focus of inflammation?"
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