Namquensis

[Julle]

So... She has a hole

 

[kameleons jvo]

Woow that's a good sign Juha
Let me know how big the clutch is,i'm incubating 2 clutches now also

 

[Kibu]

Oh my gosh those are the cutest thing ive ever seen!!!

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy,

I don't disagree that in general having a healthy CB population to offset wild collection would be ideal. I think comparing C. namaquensis in captivity to C. calyptratus is incredibly naive though. Chamaeleo namaquensis has been kept in captivity quite a few times in the past by some of the best keepers in the world, including the people who are credited with doing a lot of the work to establish C. calyptratus in captivity. They were able to breed them but were unable to get the babies or adults to survive long term and the ultimate result was always a dismal failure. Just because this time there has been success with the babies surviving does not mean this species is anywhere near as hardy to keep and reproduce as C. calyptratus in captivity, or that the species could be established in any similar manner. There are many chameleon species that have been bred much more consistently and repeatedly that have yet to be successfully established in captivity.

Currently, the legal status of this species in captivity is obvious. By allowing a few legal imports to try and establish viable captive populations, however, you would permanently eliminate any ability for authorities to go after smugglers unless they caught them in the act of smuggling. It is exactly what has caused the black market to be so fruitful in Malagasy chameleon species in Europe. If there was a real track record with this species that actually suggested establishing this species would be any different than the vast majority of other species, I think a case could be made that the risk was worth it. In this case, however, I think you would be very hard pressed to convince the management authorities of South Africa or Namibia that this was a good idea for the species in the wild. I wish it wasn't the case, but I think this is the reality of the situation. You have to have a proven track record to justify risking the ability of these authorities to fully manage the conservation of these species, and we simply do not have that.

As for Bradypodion coming into Europe, most of the influx of Bradypodion blood into the EU follows a path like the laundering of Malagasy chameleon species. The one exception I'm aware of is B. transvaalense, which is a different case because that province has different rules than the rest regarding issuing permits for their export.

Chris

Chris

The correlation of Chamaeleo calyptratus to Chamaeleo namaquensis was theoretical. As of course out of all the species that have made it to the hobby Chamaeleo calyptratus is the only one that has been bred long term with out wild caught specimens being added regularly to captive breeding populations. However, it would not surprise me if another species from that genus followed suite and was capable of being bred long term in captivity.

As for the legality and a paper trail following legal exports I think that could be done too. It is being done with microchips by CITES officials in regards to aqua cultured Asian Arowana's for the aquarium hobby. Although they are much more expensive than any chameleon species currently on the market. However, I think unregulated trade in chameleons is outdated and if chameleons are going to make it to the hobby they have got to be documented on the books or encouraged to be documented and kept on the books (as much as possible) to prevent over collection and other conservation problems that happen from non managed collecting. This either occurring from South Africa or Namibia and either Bradypodion or Chamaeleo namaquensis. I think to make proactive steps towards addressing these issues in the wild (managed collecting vs non managed collecting) is a big step forward while not to act is losing ground and an opportunity to have important collection data documented. Which in the long term could be used for research and studies and progress on further conservation biology issues especially in regards to wildlife markets. Which on a world stage is currently required.

Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris

The correlation of Chamaeleo calyptratus to Chamaeleo namaquensis was theoretical. As of course out of all the species that have made it to the hobby Chamaeleo calyptratus is the only one that has been bred long term with out wild caught specimens being added regularly to captive breeding populations. However, it would not surprise me if another species from that genus followed suite and was capable of being bred long term in captivity.

As for the legality and a paper trail following legal exports I think that could be done too. It is being done with microchips by CITES officials in regards to aqua cultured Asian Arowana's for the aquarium hobby. Although they are much more expensive than any chameleon species currently on the market. However, I think unregulated trade in chameleons is outdated and if chameleons are going to make it to the hobby they have got to be documented on the books or encouraged to be documented and kept on the books (as much as possible) to prevent over collection and other conservation problems that happen from non managed collecting. This either occurring from South Africa or Namibia and either Bradypodion or Chamaeleo namaquensis. I think to make proactive steps towards addressing these issues in the wild (managed collecting vs non managed collecting) is a big step forward while not to act is losing ground and an opportunity to have important collection data documented. Which in the long term could be used for research and studies and progress on further conservation biology issues especially in regards to wildlife markets. Which on a world stage is currently required.

Jeremy A. Rich

Jeremy,

I definitely agree with you on all that. The current system in place with chameleons in the trade is obviously broken and needs some work. The Arowana example would be a great one to strive for if management authorities and market interests could be convinced of its feasibility. Its possible for a species like C. namaquensis, where we know the current status of any animals in captivity, something like this may be possible. My concern for such a program more generally with other species, however, is that we may be so deep in the laundering of illegally collected animals that it wouldn't be.

Chris

 

[Julle]

And now the eggs.. 7 good 2 not so good looking.

 

[kameleons jvo]

Congrats with the eggs Juha
Success with the incubation

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy,

I definitely agree with you on all that. The current system in place with chameleons in the trade is obviously broken and needs some work. The Arowana example would be a great one to strive for if management authorities and market interests could be convinced of its feasibility. Its possible for a species like C. namaquensis, where we know the current status of any animals in captivity, something like this may be possible. My concern for such a program more generally with other species, however, is that we may be so deep in the laundering of illegally collected animals that it wouldn't be.

Chris

Chris

It means whomever takes up this task is going to be extremely busy. As well as there is the saying there is no better time to start than the present. Along with the mentioned saying one important detail with conservation issues sooner rather than latter is much more of a critical issue.

Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Julle]

Here they go again

 

[SSimsswiSS]

And now the eggs.. 7 good 2 not so good looking.

I wonder what the idea temp is for keeping eggs is? Given the hot day time temps in the desert And nighttime drops.

 

[ataraxia]

I want some of these like....REAL BAD!

Congrats. Can you give some info on how you are personally keeping them?

Temps (Ambients, daytime, night time)
How often are you offering hydration and what are you techniques
Size of enclosure
Supplementation

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Neat. I remember reading/hearing rumors that Tremper had a bunch in , but they ate incessantly, unfathomably large amounts...

 

[maxttu]

Here they go again

Lol. She's really into it. "Are you done yet"?

 

[kameleons jvo]

Here they go again

Looking good Juha,my pair seems to do very well at your place
Most i had was 3 clutches from one female in one year,I'm curious you will do better...
Good luck with the eggs mate

 

[Julle]

Temps (Ambients, daytime, night time)
How often are you offering hydration and what are you techniques
Size of enclosure
Supplementation

Day average 22°C, spot average 36°C, night 6-15°C.

I mist them almost every evening and if they start to drink, i mist longer and also water the plants in their terrariums.
This way the humidity stays higher during the night and in the morning, when the lights go on and heat up the sand, humidity goes way up for a few hours and drops to 20-40% during the day.

Terrariums are 90cm X 60cm X 50cm each.

I only dust with Miner-All outdoor almost every feeding and indoor maybe once a month.
I use very high UV indexes for them and i always think that the natural way with every vitamin is absolutely the best way.

Lighting is very important with these guys.. They won't even wake up properly under my basic 2 X 39w T5 lighting, they need much more!

 

[ataraxia]

Thank you very much for the information.

What kind of lighting set up do you use?

 

[Julle]

I have them under

1 x 12% arcadia T5 39w
1 x 5500k Viva-Lite T5 39w
1 x 50w HID (6000k)
2 x 50w halogen - just in the morning to rise up the heat, my whole cham room gets very cold sometimes during the night, especially in the winter time.

Index are 6-7 (+ - 200uW/cm2) under the HID and 1-3 (30-120uW/cm2) elsewhere.

 

[ataraxia]

Great info thank you.

I hope this species makes it to the states.

 

[Julle]

Outside today.

 

[kameleons jvo]

Wooow they seems to love their sunbath
They show also different coloration in the sun than under lamps,great pictures mate