Need help finding a vet for veiled chameleon

My feedback will be in red. I will also talk about things I previously mentioned just to keep myself on track. I will also split it into two parts. Hopefully someone will correct anything I miss!


Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Veiled Chameleon, male, ~5 years old. Had him since 2019 when he was 4 inches long, including tail length.
Five years is a long time for a veiled. Congrats! You must have taken good care of this guy! I don’t think you’ve told us his name yet?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
I let him climb up my arm and onto my head about once a week or whenever he wants, other than that we just hold hands unless he wants to climb on that too. (These past few days, he just weakly grabs onto me, nothing more)
it’s good to build trust with them and it sounds like you have. Veileds especially are grumpy and don’t like people, so it’s fantastic that you have built trust in a way that he will actually climb on to you!
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Dubia roaches, crickets, mealworms, waxworms. I stick a whole bunch in a small cup, shake it around and he just goes at it, so im not sure how much of which insect he eats. I'd say he stops at around 15 to 20 total. The roaches have this dubia roach diet thing I bought at the store, I'll throw cooked peas in there. The crickets have this orange jelly thing I bought for them. My chameleon himself won't eat anything that won't move, but I occasionally try to trick him into eating omnivore mix stuff (I'll add a picture of a little bag I brought with me). He eats every 2-3 days. (Or used to, he hasn't eaten in several days and shows no interest in doing so. I've been using flukers repta boost AMP to try to get him to eat again)
you have a great variety of bugs here! That is really important. I would however drop the mealworms. They can eat them, however they don’t really provide much nutrition. Wax worms are super fatty and should be given more like treats. I’ll attach a feeder and gutload list for you as well. He should be eating 3-5 bugs every other day or every three days.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
ZooMed Repticalcium (half of the little spoon in it is thrown into the cup of insects about every other feeding), Flukers Liquid Vitamin (I put 2 drops on the top of the insect cup he eats, and I do that once a week)
as mentioned before, drop the calcium with D3 and switch it for calcium without D3. Use this at every feeding. Then twice a month (say the 1st and 15th) skip the calcium and use a multivitamin. I use repashy plus LoD. This is a great product as it has your multivitamin and the D3 in one.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I don't know if this is normal, but he drinks straight from the mist bottle thing I have, I just lightly press on the lever and he goes straight for it. He never drank off the dripper I bought for him or anything. I let him drink until he gets bored of it and leaves twice a day, (but he hasn't been drinking the past few days unless I give it to him through the syringe)
chameleons are shy drinkers and lots of people never see them drink. They typically drink off of leaves. Be careful with the bottle and syringe because their airway is right in the front and it’s easy to aspirate them. @Ghostbirb do you have the photo of nachito that shows this?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Brown and white-ish yellow, but the last time he used the bathroom was the other day and it was more liquid with yellow. I don't really know what it used to look like before he got sick. And no he hasn't been tested for parasites before.
mostly white urates indicate hydration. More than half yellow or orange would indicate dehydration. It’s important to monitor this as they are so shy about drinking. Even if you never see them drink, you can use their urates to make sure they are. When you go to the vet tomorrrow, take a fresh sample of poo if you have one and get a parasite test. Liquid poo can sometimes be a sign of parasites.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
He's been sick once before, about a year go with almost similar problems but without the sunken in cheek bones and breathing weird. The hollow face/head area slowly became more apparent about 2-3 months ago.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
For the weekend, he is with me away from home, so he's in a screen cage that could fit in the car. At home, it's a bedroom, but also there's an old 20 gallon glass fish tank I reused and combine two of the screen cages together for the top, it coves 2/3rds of the tank itself though. It's not pretty looking, but I DIYed it together and it's pretty spacious. When I get home Monday, I'll take a picture of it. I'll take a picture of the part I brought with me. It's pretty bare because I couldn't take a lot with me since I'd have to carry it and him.
recommended minimum size is 2x2x4 or equivalent. Glass fish tanks hold a lot of humidity so they are not recommended, but it’s not impossible to make it work with proper ventilation. We can talk more about the enclosure when you have photos of his regular set up.

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Double dome light fixture, Aqua Culture Daylight Bulb Incandescent Reptile Lighting, and Red Heat Bulb Reptile Incandescent Lighting, both 75 watts. After dark, I turn the red light on, during the day the day light is on. I don't know if there's any difference to those two bulbs besides color.
no colored lights and no light at night like said before. Your plain white heat bulb should be fine during the day. Get a linear T5HO fixture with a 05 or 6% bulb. There are a couple options, but next to the enclosure this is the most expensive piece of equipment. Arcadia makes the best, but also most expensive. Reptizoo is more affordable. If you need help choosing correct lighting, don’t be afraid to ask. This was the most confusing part for me when getting everything just right. Once you have it, his basking branch will need to be 8-9 inches below the bulb so he gets the correct amount of UVB.
 
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
The cage ranges from 60-80 (80 during the day, falls to 60 if its cold, 60 is also the lowest its been).
80-85 is perfect for his basking area!
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I mist the cage in the middle of the day for 2 minutes or more, I will show the bottle. I don't do it in mornings or nights because I worry it gets too cold, but I do try to do it a couple times throughout the day when Im home. The humidity levels never hit 90, but is usually around 70-80. There's a circular thing in it to measure both temp and humidity.
2 minutes or more is the perfect amount as 2 minutes will trigger his drinking urge. Humidity should be 30-40 during the day. If the temp drops to 68 or lower at night you can boost humidity all the way up and this will be great for him. Get a probe thermometer as they are much more accurate. I got a cheap 2 pack on Amazon that also measures humidity.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Not live plants in the cage, but soft fake plants, they're fabric. Fake vines, some kind of mulch at the bottom that said it was supposed to help with humidity but I forgot what it's called. I also have sticks in there I bought from hobby lobby a while back. There is one live plant by the window I put him on (inside plant, not a live plant outside a window). I don't know what kind of plant it is, but it's medium height.
swap fake plants for live ones so if your guy eats them he won’t get an impaction. You should also take out the mulch. Bare bottom. The mulch can also pose an impaction risk.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
His cage at home hits near the ceiling to about half way down the wall. It's not super tall, but it's wide in its weird way. There's 1 air vent near it, but it barely works. There's alot of windows in the room, and a ceiling fan in the middle of the room. There's also a small heater on the floor I turn on during the night, but it's not directly on him. It does heat the room up a little bit though.
this is great as long as there are no drafts! Height is safety for chams so the higher they can get the better!!
Location - Where are you geographically located?
USA, Alabama

Current Problem:

Not eating or drinking on his own, opening his mouth as if to yawn, but creacking sounds come out- happens multiple times during the day yesterday, happened once today so far but still opening mouth alot. Last night, stayed on bottom of cage, two arms extended and head reeled far back. Also, sunken in cheeks and horn(?), much worse as of late, but started becoming prevalent about 2 or 3 months ago, this week they seem worse. Eyes closed about 50 or 60 percent of the day. Most vets opens Monday, need ideas to make him last to then. I'm not sure what the main cause could be other than the temps in my house dropping so low this season since I think that's the only thing that's changed about his habitat and our home lately.

I'm going to add a picture of some of the items and the cage he's in while he's here with me at this lady's house for the weekend. So it's that cage, plus a second just like it ontop of a 20 gallon glass tank (its not too impressive, but its spacious), I'll have to send that photo of the one of it at home on Monday in another comment. Though, he's usually just out in my room on a plant by the window more than he is in the cage during the day (only when I'm home though)
free ranging him during the day is great as long as he gets his UVB and basking time. To be honest, I’m surprised that I do not see signs of MBD since he does not have the correct lighting. Do you take him outside often? I suspect this is why. Natural UVB is so good for them.
Symptoms for sure sound like an RI and he will have to see the vet for that. Eyes closed is not a great sign. Chams tend to hide their sickness until they just can’t anymore. They don’t have many defenses to fall back on, so as soon as you notice something is off you need to act. He likely has been sick for a bit longer than you have noticed, he just was hiding it.
All in all you have been doing something right to have kept him for five years. They are not easy pets to care for and the littlest thing can send them downhill quickly. Most don’t make it near this long. So this is an accomplishment!
 

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Hi there welcome to the forum. You have already received great advice... What you are seeing with the cheeks totally sinking in and the eye turrets sinking in. This is a sign of a major decline. There is thinning in the limbs as well which combined with the other two are tell tell signs. Now I am going to be very honest with you because I feel it is better to have honesty with kindness than to tell you a vet visit will fix it... This boy is showing all the major signs of dying. I am guessing since they hide illness so well that he had an RI starting and then the stress of moving and change in environment just hit his immune system causing the faster shut down. Now I also want to note he may not have had an RI... Your boy is considered old for a chameleon which is a beautiful thing because you have cared for him and given him all the love and thoughtfulness a veiled could want. He may just be going into an old age decline which really is not reversible depending on what is causing it. As they get older their organ function is not what it was this can cause a shut down.

So yes a vet visit is really what you need here but they really need to know these animals to treat it. Do not let them give any vitamin shots or dewormers. We see this happen with vets that do not know how to treat chams and they can further compromise their system.

I also am going to be honest because this boy may not make it until Monday. Based on his appearance I would honestly be surprised if he does. I want to add that a vet can provide humane euthanasia as well. This is a personal decision for every keeper and I am sure me saying all of this is a yucky feeling. But I would want someone to give me real options and honesty.

Let us know if you have any questions. Sending you kind thoughts and virtual hugs during this hard time.
 
Thank you all for your assistance and help. I don't believe he will make it to the end of the day. I'll keep all of this info for future references, whether it be in case he survives by some strong miracle or if I ever get another one in the future. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate you and this website.
It slipped my mind to tell you guys his name, so bare with me if it seems a little goofy. Me and my friends came up with it. His name is Desteria, but it's pronounced Johnny Depp. I couldn't tell you why, because I have no idea what made us choose that but it stuck and it grew on me.
I found some old photos of when he was younger. He just kept climbing everywhere when he was small, he was very energetic.
 

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Ah yes I do have photo! Sorry for the wait!
My feedback will be in red. I will also talk about things I previously mentioned just to keep myself on track. I will also split it into two parts. Hopefully someone will correct anything I miss!


Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Veiled Chameleon, male, ~5 years old. Had him since 2019 when he was 4 inches long, including tail length.
Five years is a long time for a veiled. Congrats! You must have taken good care of this guy! I don’t think you’ve told us his name yet?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
I let him climb up my arm and onto my head about once a week or whenever he wants, other than that we just hold hands unless he wants to climb on that too. (These past few days, he just weakly grabs onto me, nothing more)
it’s good to build trust with them and it sounds like you have. Veileds especially are grumpy and don’t like people, so it’s fantastic that you have built trust in a way that he will actually climb on to you!
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Dubia roaches, crickets, mealworms, waxworms. I stick a whole bunch in a small cup, shake it around and he just goes at it, so im not sure how much of which insect he eats. I'd say he stops at around 15 to 20 total. The roaches have this dubia roach diet thing I bought at the store, I'll throw cooked peas in there. The crickets have this orange jelly thing I bought for them. My chameleon himself won't eat anything that won't move, but I occasionally try to trick him into eating omnivore mix stuff (I'll add a picture of a little bag I brought with me). He eats every 2-3 days. (Or used to, he hasn't eaten in several days and shows no interest in doing so. I've been using flukers repta boost AMP to try to get him to eat again)
you have a great variety of bugs here! That is really important. I would however drop the mealworms. They can eat them, however they don’t really provide much nutrition. Wax worms are super fatty and should be given more like treats. I’ll attach a feeder and gutload list for you as well. He should be eating 3-5 bugs every other day or every three days.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
ZooMed Repticalcium (half of the little spoon in it is thrown into the cup of insects about every other feeding), Flukers Liquid Vitamin (I put 2 drops on the top of the insect cup he eats, and I do that once a week)
as mentioned before, drop the calcium with D3 and switch it for calcium without D3. Use this at every feeding. Then twice a month (say the 1st and 15th) skip the calcium and use a multivitamin. I use repashy plus LoD. This is a great product as it has your multivitamin and the D3 in one.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I don't know if this is normal, but he drinks straight from the mist bottle thing I have, I just lightly press on the lever and he goes straight for it. He never drank off the dripper I bought for him or anything. I let him drink until he gets bored of it and leaves twice a day, (but he hasn't been drinking the past few days unless I give it to him through the syringe)
chameleons are shy drinkers and lots of people never see them drink. They typically drink off of leaves. Be careful with the bottle and syringe because their airway is right in the front and it’s easy to aspirate them. @Ghostbirb do you have the photo of nachito that shows this?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Brown and white-ish yellow, but the last time he used the bathroom was the other day and it was more liquid with yellow. I don't really know what it used to look like before he got sick. And no he hasn't been tested for parasites before.
mostly white urates indicate hydration. More than half yellow or orange would indicate dehydration. It’s important to monitor this as they are so shy about drinking. Even if you never see them drink, you can use their urates to make sure they are. When you go to the vet tomorrrow, take a fresh sample of poo if you have one and get a parasite test. Liquid poo can sometimes be a sign of parasites.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
He's been sick once before, about a year go with almost similar problems but without the sunken in cheek bones and breathing weird. The hollow face/head area slowly became more apparent about 2-3 months ago.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
For the weekend, he is with me away from home, so he's in a screen cage that could fit in the car. At home, it's a bedroom, but also there's an old 20 gallon glass fish tank I reused and combine two of the screen cages together for the top, it coves 2/3rds of the tank itself though. It's not pretty looking, but I DIYed it together and it's pretty spacious. When I get home Monday, I'll take a picture of it. I'll take a picture of the part I brought with me. It's pretty bare because I couldn't take a lot with me since I'd have to carry it and him.
recommended minimum size is 2x2x4 or equivalent. Glass fish tanks hold a lot of humidity so they are not recommended, but it’s not impossible to make it work with proper ventilation. We can talk more about the enclosure when you have photos of his regular set up.

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Double dome light fixture, Aqua Culture Daylight Bulb Incandescent Reptile Lighting, and Red Heat Bulb Reptile Incandescent Lighting, both 75 watts. After dark, I turn the red light on, during the day the day light is on. I don't know if there's any difference to those two bulbs besides color.
no colored lights and no light at night like said before. Your plain white heat bulb should be fine during the day. Get a linear T5HO fixture with a 05 or 6% bulb. There are a couple options, but next to the enclosure this is the most expensive piece of equipment. Arcadia makes the best, but also most expensive. Reptizoo is more affordable. If you need help choosing correct lighting, don’t be afraid to ask. This was the most confusing part for me when getting everything just right. Once you have it, his basking branch will need to be 8-9 inches below the bulb so he gets the correct amount of UVB.
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I’m sorry this is happening to your boy
:(
 
(Bad news warning)
The vet gave him an antibiotic and a shot, and sent me home with Baytril, but mentioned he may not make it in the next three hours.
I thought about bringing up euthanasia, but little guy squeezed my hand several times and I just really wanted to try if he was going to keep trying. (Plus, I think I wouldn't be able to say it crying so hard)

I think he passed away halfway through the car ride back home because he stopped squeezing. It was a really long drive there and back home. He's dark colored now, and is stiff in the limbs wrapped in a warm towel at the bottom of his enclosure near the light that I moved lower down. I'm going to burry him tomorrow morning or later tonight.

I really appreciate everyone here and I'm so sorry
Despite everything, I'm glad I knew him dn I'm glad I have a little bottle with his name and date on it
 

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I'm so sorry. Sending you healing vibes and for you to have peace in your heart that you gave him a good 5 years and were there for him at his end. ((( 💗 )))
 
So very sorry for your loss hun... These things are never easy and we do understand what you are going through.
 
I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️he obviously lived a long good life with you. Take your time to grieve. We are all here for you.
 
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