Need help with sick veiled chameleon. Won't eat or open eyes.

F

FishFosh

New Member
Hello thank you in advance for any help, it has been very difficult with this animal, as this is my first reptile and I believe I got him sick, Here we go

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, age unknown, have had for about a month, came from pet store so probably young? Had black markings on head so is an adult as I understand?
  • Handling - Never, until I started having to force feed him then once every other day. I've also taken him outside for sun twice and in the car to the vet once.
  • Feeding - The first week he ate ravenously, and I fed him every day with crickets roaches or waxworms. I thought he as a juvie. Then he abruptly stopped. For 10 days he only ate 2 superworms. He was offered those, crickets, roaches, waxworms every other day. After 10 day I force fed him with reptiboost. I have force fed him 3 times with Repti-boost. I gut load the insects with carrots. feed him every other day, and typically leave insects from 7am until 2pm at which point I force feed him. This has been going on for about a week? He ate a hornworm yesterday so no force feeding. Tomorrow im trying crickets. Sorry if that was disjointed.
  • Supplements - Flukers calcium without d3 every feeding (not with reptiboost) and Ive given him the reptivite vitamins once a week 3 total times incase he has a vitamin deficiency. (cant open eyes)
  • Watering - A dripper, he drinks from it, I catch him. He won't do it with me in the room but I can see him around the corner. For the 10 days he didnt eat I never caught him drinking tho. NO misting durings lights on, and lights off I have a monsoon solo misting for 12 seconds once an hour. I have an extra nozzle and it seems to drench the enclosure pretty well.
  • Fecal Description - dark brown with white urea. Looks healthy compared to photos but im a noob Has never been tested for parasites.
  • History - Came from a crappy pet store that put on a good front to noobs. im sure youve encountered my type before. He has gone to to vet, who told me my nighttime humidity levels were too low. I covered 2 sides of the enclosure with plastic and he seems to feel a bit better. Ambient humidity outside the cage is 20-25%

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - ReptiBreeze 36x18x18 I know its too small, going to build him a larger one. I have the left and right sides covered to keep in humidity.
  • Lighting - 12/12 -- 2x 24 inch T5HO fixture Arcadia 6% UVB and a full spectrum 6500k light for plants. Bf30 incandescent indoor floodlight for basking.
  • Temperature - Top of the cage 90, Basking spot 85 Bottom 70. At night I get the top area down to about 65-70. I measure the basking spot with infrared thermometer and have a wifi dongle to measure ambient temp,
  • Humidity - I'm using a digital hygrometer used to grow cannabis. Its pretty reliable. At night It gets to 60-75% and during the day 30-40%. It's a struggle.
  • Plants - UMbrella plant, a small palm, and pothos
  • Placement - Bedroom, near bed, diagonally across from TV, in room with aquariums. Top of enclosure is about 7-8 ft from floor. Only traffic is me.
  • Location - Denver Colorado

Current Problem -
He almost never opens his eyes. He has started opening them more now that I went to the vet and put up plastic on the sides, but its still only like 30-40% of the time.
He never eats. 10 days without eating mostly, then a week of force feeding. Hes eaten a hornworm yesterday so im hopeful but i offer food from 7am until 2pm then I force feed him. It sucks.
I've found a single droplet of bright red blood in the enclosure. This has happened twice. The second time it was near a massive poop and it was the day after the first force feeding. He has no injuries that I can see. This is very alarming to me of course.
I know he needs another vet visit, with a different vet, but anyway I was hoping for some advice. He seems to be getting better, He is more active and sometimes his eyes are open, but anyway.... I honestly don't expect him to eat tomorrow but fingers crossed. Thanks in advance.
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Last edited:
Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons!

Please post some photos of your chameleon and the whole cage, lights included.
 
Hi there. I will go through your form. Can you tell me the distance between the screen top and the branch right below the uvb?
 
Is there a substrate in the cage? If so, what is it?

I’m assuming the Reptivite has D3 in it?
It should only be given twice a month IMHO.

Nice looking little male chameleon! Except for shutting his eyes.

Since I see that @Beman is going through your husbandry, I’ll comment more later.
 
Hi there @FishFosh welcome to the forum. See my feedback in Red bold.


Hello thank you in advance for any help, it has been very difficult with this animal, as this is my first reptile and I believe I got him sick, Here we go

Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, age unknown, have had for about a month, came from pet store so probably young? Had black markings on head so is an adult as I understand? Looks to be a sub adult.
  • Handling - Never, until I started having to force feed him then once every other day. I've also taken him outside for sun twice and in the car to the vet once.
  • Feeding - The first week he ate ravenously, and I fed him every day with crickets roaches or waxworms. I thought he as a juvie. Then he abruptly stopped. For 10 days he only ate 2 superworms. He was offered those, crickets, roaches, waxworms every other day. After 10 day I force fed him with reptiboost. I have force fed him 3 times with Repti-boost. I gut load the insects with carrots. feed him every other day, and typically leave insects from 7am until 2pm at which point I force feed him. This has been going on for about a week? He ate a hornworm yesterday so no force feeding. Tomorrow im trying crickets. Sorry if that was disjointed. How are you feeding? with a dish, feeder run? Was anything changed in his environment when he stopped eating?
  • Supplements - Flukers calcium without d3 every feeding (not with reptiboost) and Ive given him the reptivite vitamins once a week 3 total times incase he has a vitamin deficiency. (cant open eyes) Make sure it is calcium without D3. This would be used at every feeding of insects lightly dusted. Then reptivite with D3 should be used only 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Does not present as a vitamin A dificency. But more related to temps and distance to the uvb.
  • Watering - A dripper, he drinks from it, I catch him. He won't do it with me in the room but I can see him around the corner. For the 10 days he didnt eat I never caught him drinking tho. NO misting durings lights on, and lights off I have a monsoon solo misting for 12 seconds once an hour. I have an extra nozzle and it seems to drench the enclosure pretty well. 12 seconds really is not very long. 2 minutes minimum every 6 hours would be better. you can mist when lights are on. If he has something in an eye he will need to try to clean this out. Which they can not do when they sleep.
  • Fecal Description - dark brown with white urea. Looks healthy compared to photos but im a noob Has never been tested for parasites. Highly advice getting a fresh fecal tested to ensure there is not a parasite load.
  • History - Came from a crappy pet store that put on a good front to noobs. im sure youve encountered my type before. He has gone to to vet, who told me my nighttime humidity levels were too low. I covered 2 sides of the enclosure with plastic and he seems to feel a bit better. Ambient humidity outside the cage is 20-25%

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - ReptiBreeze 36x18x18 I know its too small, going to build him a larger one. I have the left and right sides covered to keep in humidity. Way too small which you know. Get on the new cage build asap. If using wood you need to seal it with a water based poly urethane and it has to completely gas off.
  • Lighting - 12/12 -- 2x 24 inch T5HO fixture Arcadia 6% UVB and a full spectrum 6500k light for plants. Bf30 incandescent indoor floodlight for basking. With your UVB type and strength you have to have a full 8-9 inches to branches below the UVB> This puts them in the correct UVI level where they rise up. Closer than that and they start getting into over exposure levels. His branches look far too close from the pics. Easiest way to fix this is to take the pots that the plants are sitting on out. This will drop down your plants and make room to fully lower the basking level the 9 inches it needs to be. All branches would be at that level distance.
  • Temperature - Top of the cage 90, Basking spot 85 Bottom 70. At night I get the top area down to about 65-70. I measure the basking spot with infrared thermometer and have a wifi dongle to measure ambient temp, This is far too hot... basking should sit at about 80 or a bit more maxing at 85. If using a gun to check temps it is not going to give you accurate temps. Dropping the basking down should help. But keep in mind a 60 watt regular incandescent bulb with the other fixtures you have should put out plenty of heat. You can get a gauge with a probe and hook it in at basking branch below the heat fixture to get accurate temps.
  • Humidity - I'm using a digital hygrometer used to grow cannabis. Its pretty reliable. At night It gets to 60-75% and during the day 30-40%. It's a struggle. Increasing your misting times will help with your daytime humidity level. Your looking for a 30-50% daytime range.
  • Plants - UMbrella plant, a small palm, and pothos
  • Placement - Bedroom, near bed, diagonally across from TV, in room with aquariums. Top of enclosure is about 7-8 ft from floor. Only traffic is me.
  • Location - Denver Colorado

Current Problem -
He almost never opens his eyes. He has started opening them more now that I went to the vet and put up plastic on the sides, but its still only like 30-40% of the time.
He never eats. 10 days without eating mostly, then a week of force feeding. Hes eaten a hornworm yesterday so im hopeful but i offer food from 7am until 2pm then I force feed him. It sucks. Fecal to rule out parasites, drop temps, increase mistings, correct basking distance by taking out the pots they sit on.
I've found a single droplet of bright red blood in the enclosure. This has happened twice. The second time it was near a massive poop and it was the day after the first force feeding. He has no injuries that I can see. This is very alarming to me of course. I am concerned that he may be so dehydrated that he is causing himself to bleed when he passes fecal or if you have any type of substrate or dirt in the cage that he has eaten it and dealing with an impaction. With Veileds we have to cover the dirt in their pots with large river rock to keep them out of the dirt. They will eat anything and everything like a toddler. By dehydration we look at the urate color. This comes out with the fecal in a separate sack. It should be at least 50% white. If it is all yellow/orange then the cham is dehydrated.
I know he needs another vet visit, with a different vet, but anyway I was hoping for some advice. He seems to be getting better, He is more active and sometimes his eyes are open, but anyway.... I honestly don't expect him to eat tomorrow but fingers crossed. Thanks in advance. I would do the corrections I mentioned...

@kinyonga can you give the OP the info for making the bug mush for force feeding should it be needed.

This image will show you what to gutload with.

chameleon-gutload.jpg
 
I only recommend force feeding if there is no other alternative.
I would try to get it to eat while it’s drinking first…use a dripper…drip it on the end of his nose at the rate of one drip every second or two. Once the mouth is opening anshutting to drink…slip a cricket into its mouth head first so it ends up between your Chameleon’s teeth and he should eat it.

Bug juice…
http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html
 
Ok so I'll go lower everything 2 inches right now
If I mist for 2 minutes every 6 hours the humidity will go down to crazy low levels. It's 20 percent ambient. Would 30 seconds every hour be suitable?
How often should I mist during the day?
The feedings are from a bowl attached to the door. It is black with a white interior
 
kinyonga said:
I only recommend force feeding if there is no other alternative.
I would try to get it to eat while it’s drinking first…use a dripper…drip it on the end of his nose at the rate of one drip every second or two. Once the mouth is opening anshutting to drink…slip a cricket into its mouth head first so it ends up between your Chameleon’s teeth and he should eat it.

Bug juice…
http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html
Click to expand...
There's no way he's letting me do that. He's ultra scared of me. If I open the cage door hea ready to run. No way I'm getting a hand near his face.
How long do you recommend letting him go before I force feed him. He went 10 days before.
 
IMHO….Reptiboost is not something you can just feed to your chameleon without being aware that it has both D3 in it and a prEformed source of vitamin A …which you are already providing for the chameleon with the Reptivite.

BTW, I’m not a vet….just speak from experience and what I’ve learned in 30+ years of keeping chameleons.
 
I'm not doubting you I just don't think he's going to let me get a cricket in his mouth while he's drinking I do however think I can get a cricket in his mouth while I'm holding him.
I went and sprayed his enclosure down and he immediately started rubbing his eye on a wet branch
ill try the bug mush
 
You said…”I do however think I can get a cricket in his mouth while I'm holding him”…willingly or will you have to make him open his mouth?

Is he shutting both eyes or only one?
 
FishFosh said:
Ok so I'll go lower everything 2 inches right now
If I mist for 2 minutes every 6 hours the humidity will go down to crazy low levels. It's 20 percent ambient. Would 30 seconds every hour be suitable?
How often should I mist during the day?
The feedings are from a bowl attached to the door. It is black with a white interior
Click to expand...

FishFosh said:
I'm not doubting you I just don't think he's going to let me get a cricket in his mouth while he's drinking I do however think I can get a cricket in his mouth while I'm holding him.
I went and sprayed his enclosure down and he immediately started rubbing his eye on a wet branch
ill try the bug mush
Click to expand...

So if he is rubbing his eyes this may very well be part of the issue as a whole. So run a longer misting session. With your automatic mister it does not give you options the way a mistking timer will. I am able to set the exact times of day and as long or short of a session individual to each misting session. I run long misting sessions 5-7 minutes to maintain humidity and give my boy time to drink and play in the water if he wants. It can take them 2 minutes just to trigger a drinking response.

Go get corrugated plastic sheets or duct window film. Hook this to the back and two sides on the frame of the cage... Then see where your humidity is. If you need a further bump to get it to 30% daytime then put the film on the door panel. But you have to leave the bottom service door open screen and the top for airflow.

Did anything change in the room when he stopped eating?
 
He does look a little dehydrated (eyes are a little sunken). And I have seen them eat dirt because they're nitwits. I would try to hand mist to his face which he will not like, but may get him to start drinking.
 
kinyonga said:
You said…”I do however think I can get a cricket in his mouth while I'm holding him”…willingly or will you have to make him open his mouth?

Is he shutting both eyes or only one?
Click to expand...
I poke his head crest thing until he opens his mouth. I got 3 wax worms in him today. I had some nice roaches but I threw them away because there's. New development.
The vet found what he called a "massive coccidiosis infection."
I've begun medication. How hard to I need to clean? Any tips? The vet said to throw away his food so I did that that's why I used wxeorms they were in the fridge
 
Beman said:
So if he is rubbing his eyes this may very well be part of the issue as a whole. So run a longer misting session. With your automatic mister it does not give you options the way a mistking timer will. I am able to set the exact times of day and as long or short of a session individual to each misting session. I run long misting sessions 5-7 minutes to maintain humidity and give my boy time to drink and play in the water if he wants. It can take them 2 minutes just to trigger a drinking response.

Go get corrugated plastic sheets or duct window film. Hook this to the back and two sides on the frame of the cage... Then see where your humidity is. If you need a further bump to get it to 30% daytime then put the film on the door panel. But you have to leave the bottom service door open screen and the top for airflow.

Did anything change in the room when he stopped eating?
Click to expand...
Okay I know I'm completely derailing the conversation here, but the vet today found what he called a massive coccidiosis infection. I've started medication but obviously this probably is the problem. How hard do I need to clean everything? Any tips? I'm overwhelmed
 
You have to clean very well. ill leave it too others to tell you what they’ve done because I haven’t dealt with it for many years and information has improved since then.
 
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