Panther M 2 Years Old - Something off

naterowley said:
I took him outside since we hit low 60s and sunny. Definitely appears to have a shed starting the first pic is the right eye he’s been rubbing and having issues with and the second pic is another spot on his left eye (on right in pic) that looks like shedding?

Is this the start of a shed? (He has yet to shed in my care, in my care mid September 2023)
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I can't tell if he is about to shed. Not the typical look of one coming on though. As an adult they shed in patches.

Obesity can cause all sorts of issues. With all the excess fat storage in the cheeks it could be pushing places it shouldnt be.
 
Hi everyone, just an update. He's still closing his eyes, and rubbing them on things sometimes. He is down to 3 days a week feedings with 3 feeders. He's eating, he moves around throughout the day. He will be getting his second dusting of the Repashy Calcium Plus LoD on Saturday after switching from the Arcadia supplements. My second hand solar meter I had lined up fell through, so I will be ponying up some change for a new one I guess on payday. Anyone live near alliance Ohio wanna come over and test my bulbs? haha

I believe his enclosure was getting a bit too cool so I upped the ambient room temp a few degrees and he's more active since doing that, the ambient up top at the same height of the as the highest areas he's in is around 74 and the middle of the enclosure is around 70, are these ambient temps okay? the basking spot is hitting 86 when I put my point and shoot thermometer (idk the actual name but it's a laser lol)

I keep hearing of Vitamin A deficiency being thrown around for other chameleons with eye issues?? What are symptoms of that? How long does it take to recover from things like that? If he had a bad UVB bulb before how long until I see improvements? He is still more active and opening his eyes than he was when I made this post. Another thing im just thinking is the prev owner had mentioned he goes to bed an hour or hour and half before lights went off sometimes, so am I just catching him when I get home from work and he's sleeping? The time change I didnt change his lighting schedule, 7 to 7, but if he was already going to bed hour before 7 in summer or so, new time would be 5pm he's going to bed? Do others experience anything like this?

Any idea how long it takes for a chameleon to slim down too? I can tell he's not as inflated looking but he still definitely is obese.

I'm sure I repeated some points and forgot some things to mention but, im just trying to get an understanding for how long things take to see progress and not feel discouraged like im still doing something wrong? I'd be down to do a FaceTime or anything with somebody / even pay to just bounce ideas off of? I appreciate everyone's help and I still really enjoy chameleon keeping! I eventually want to get another one or meet some people that keep them IRL to pick their brain lol
 
Hello! I'm sorry to hear about your solar meter, I wish I could share mine but we are pretty far away from each other. If you want to share an accurate photo of his enclosure with the lights on top I would be happy to check it out and see if any adjustments need to be made. You want his top branches to be about 6 inches below his UVB light and at least 1 branch to run linear with the UVB light.

Do you have anything in your enclosure to measure his temps more consistently? I also have a temp gun, but only use it as a back up or to double check things as the temp guns literally only give a reading of the exact spot the lazer is on. 74 is a little on the cooler side for your boy, if you can up his ambient temps even to 76 that would be good, ideally you want 78 ambient temps at the top of his enclosure with a gradient of 72 degrees near the bottom. I don't know the temps where you live but for me to maintain the temps my panther needs in the cooler months I do have to have a space heater in the room he is in.

With his basking temps I would aim for 80 degrees if you can.

I'm not sure on all the symptoms of a vitamin A deficiency but I know that eye issues, blinking, goopy eyes, crusty eyes etc can be symptoms. If you are following your supplementation schedule correctly you shouldn't have to worry about a vit A deficiency.

Chameleon health issues resolve very slowly, the lose weight slowly. It could take a few months for things to sort themselves out. Keep paying attention to your baby and be patient :)

With the UVB bulb - how long ago did you switch out a new bulb? What kind of issues are you seeing that you think may be in relation to this?

My Jackson's puts himself to bed fairly early, he is still awake and eyes are open but he is in his sleeping spot around 5 pm.

Do you have a camera on your guy? That might be a nice addition to track his behavior to see if things are normal while you are at work.

Remind me about your concerns, eyes closed during the day?
 
naterowley said:
Hi everyone, just an update. He's still closing his eyes, and rubbing them on things sometimes. He is down to 3 days a week feedings with 3 feeders. He's eating, he moves around throughout the day. He will be getting his second dusting of the Repashy Calcium Plus LoD on Saturday after switching from the Arcadia supplements. My second hand solar meter I had lined up fell through, so I will be ponying up some change for a new one I guess on payday. Anyone live near alliance Ohio wanna come over and test my bulbs? haha

I believe his enclosure was getting a bit too cool so I upped the ambient room temp a few degrees and he's more active since doing that, the ambient up top at the same height of the as the highest areas he's in is around 74 and the middle of the enclosure is around 70, are these ambient temps okay? the basking spot is hitting 86 when I put my point and shoot thermometer (idk the actual name but it's a laser lol)

I keep hearing of Vitamin A deficiency being thrown around for other chameleons with eye issues?? What are symptoms of that? How long does it take to recover from things like that? If he had a bad UVB bulb before how long until I see improvements? He is still more active and opening his eyes than he was when I made this post. Another thing im just thinking is the prev owner had mentioned he goes to bed an hour or hour and half before lights went off sometimes, so am I just catching him when I get home from work and he's sleeping? The time change I didnt change his lighting schedule, 7 to 7, but if he was already going to bed hour before 7 in summer or so, new time would be 5pm he's going to bed? Do others experience anything like this?

Any idea how long it takes for a chameleon to slim down too? I can tell he's not as inflated looking but he still definitely is obese.

I'm sure I repeated some points and forgot some things to mention but, im just trying to get an understanding for how long things take to see progress and not feel discouraged like im still doing something wrong? I'd be down to do a FaceTime or anything with somebody / even pay to just bounce ideas off of? I appreciate everyone's help and I still really enjoy chameleon keeping! I eventually want to get another one or meet some people that keep them IRL to pick their brain lol
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A lot of good questions! I'll do my best to answer them in order (with the caveat I'm not a vet or an expert, just someone who follows husbandry closely).

70-74 during the day is fine, just make sure his enclosure dries out from mistings during the day to avoid respiratory infections. The basking spot is a bit too hot - Really you want about 85 max where he is - which is usually an inch or two higher than the basking spot itself. I personally shoot for about 80 degrees by measurement so that where my guy is standing is like 82ish. The laser thermometer is okay, but you really oughta get a thermometer with a probe that you can attach to the branch right under the basking light. That way you know exactly what the temps are the whole time (and humidity too with this particular reader) Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K2PV2R...industrial&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

Vitamin A deficiencies can present in various ways, but rubbing eyes, eyes closed, discharge, crusties, etc. are signs. If he's rubbing his eyes on a lot of stuff, it's possible that it's a Vitamin A issue, especially if he hasn't been getting proper supplements. The thing is, it could be too LITTLE Vit A, or too MUCH. If he's not been supplemented at all, then you'll be fine with his Repashy LoD 2x a month. If he's had too MUCH, you'll want to limit the Vitamin A he's taking in for at least a month (or more, depending on how much he was overdosed by). Vitamin A (and D) is a fat-soluble vitamin. THat means that it's stored in the fats in the body and take longer to process before our bodies get rid of it. Because chameleons and reptiles in general have SUCH slow metabolisms, changes to behavior for a fat-soluble vitamin reason are going to take weeks to months to come about. It's a long waiting game for our scaly friends.

The same goes for a bad UVB bulb. Vitamin D is the same way, so it'll be a few weeks or a month or so before you may be seeing changes if he wasn't getting enough UVB. UVB is crucial for the production of D3 (and D3 is crucial for proper calcium absorption in the body). Supplementing D3 isn't nearly as useful as proper light for our little guys.

Often chams, especially in winter, will start to "get ready for bed" before the lights go out. In my personal experience, they'll be in sleeping position but not eyes closed until the lights go out. They don't understand Daylight savings time, but they DO have some sort of tune-in on nature, so some of their activities may be a bit squishy compared to the hour of the day. Personally I haven't changed my timers for DST ending, so my guy goes to bed at about 5:30-5:30 when usually it's 6:30-6:30. THese days I"m not seeing much of him after work because he goes to bed shortly after I get home, and is up an hour or so before I wake up.

Hopefully that's helpful! Feel free to keep asking questions. Have you read through this? https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/ IF not, go read it, absorb it, and make sure your husbandry matches what's suggested there. The advice you've gotten here *should* match that, and if you've made those changes, you should start seeing positive changes in the coming weeks/month or so. :)
 
Here is the enclosure currently :) yeah it’s started as eye closing. He was getting supplements before and it turns out he was getting a lot supplements based on previous replies. I ordered 2 of the govee thermometers with a 30 dollar off coupon for 40 bucks earlier today actually lol, I’ve had those cheap ones get ruined very quickly. I have a probe thermometer for some other herps I have, you just always hear to get the gun to check the basking spot for them 😂 I’m on month 3 of having him and about a month and half in to adapting his care to what I learned vs what I was told if that makes sense. So reading the guide, I’ve read it before but it’s so much info that you find that you miss important points.

That makes me feel better about it taking time, this is my first reptile illness in my 4 years of keeping and just so happen to get him ill. So my baseline of knowing normal is just from reading other experiences and what my other reptiles do (blue tegu, Saharan Uromastyx, Utila island spiny tailed iguana pair)

When I see him or walk in the room on my work from home days he’s moving throughout his enclosure and is active just when he’s moving sometimes he will close one eye and when he gets to a spot sometimes he will just close both eyes. I’m not seeing any crusties, he’s been on 2 diff meds that I posted pics on the last page.
 

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naterowley said:
Here is the enclosure currently :) yeah it’s started as eye closing. He was getting supplements before and it turns out he was getting a lot supplements based on previous replies. I ordered 2 of the govee thermometers with a 30 dollar off coupon for 40 bucks earlier today actually lol, I’ve had those cheap ones get ruined very quickly. I have a probe thermometer for some other herps I have, you just always hear to get the gun to check the basking spot for them 😂 I’m on month 3 of having him and about a month and half in to adapting his care to what I learned vs what I was told if that makes sense. So reading the guide, I’ve read it before but it’s so much info that you find that you miss important points.

That makes me feel better about it taking time, this is my first reptile illness in my 4 years of keeping and just so happen to get him ill. So my baseline of knowing normal is just from reading other experiences and what my other reptiles do (blue tegu, Saharan Uromastyx, Utila island spiny tailed iguana pair)

When I see him or walk in the room on my work from home days he’s moving throughout his enclosure and is active just when he’s moving sometimes he will close one eye and when he gets to a spot sometimes he will just close both eyes. I’m not seeing any crusties, he’s been on 2 diff meds that I posted pics on the last page.
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So one thing that should be super easy to change, and will help with UVB, is put your UBV light diagonally across the cage. That'll give him the most access to the UVB he needs, no matter where he is in the cage.

It also looks like his highest branches MAYBE get a bit too close to the lights/heat - is there about 6-8" between screen top and highest branch? And as far as the enclosure, it's hard to tell from the pics, but is it at least 2'x2'x4'?
 
CalamityCrow said:
So one thing that should be super easy to change, and will help with UVB, is put your UBV light diagonally across the cage. That'll give him the most access to the UVB he needs, no matter where he is in the cage.

It also looks like his highest branches MAYBE get a bit too close to the lights/heat - is there about 6-8" between screen top and highest branch? And as far as the enclosure, it's hard to tell from the pics, but is it at least 2'x2'x4'?
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So I just took the tape measure in the room to get exact measurements. The branch under his basking is at 8 1/8” and the branch horizontal with with UVB is 7” - 7.25” depending on what part of the branch. The piece of bamboo that is diagonal and drilled in and hot glued with fishing wire, in the top right corner that is about 3” from the top I’d love to get rid of, So if anyone knows how to do that without destroying his enclosure that would be rad. I’d like to replace all the bamboo if I could figure out how to get rid of all the stuff lol

It’s a 2x2x4 :)
 
naterowley said:
So I just took the tape measure in the room to get exact measurements. The branch under his basking is at 8 1/8” and the branch horizontal with with UVB is 7” - 7.25” depending on what part of the branch. The piece of bamboo that is diagonal and drilled in and hot glued with fishing wire, in the top right corner that is about 3” from the top I’d love to get rid of, So if anyone knows how to do that without destroying his enclosure that would be rad. I’d like to replace all the bamboo if I could figure out how to get rid of all the stuff lol

It’s a 2x2x4 :)
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That's good to hear! Phone cameras can really warp what things look like lol.

But yeah I'd move the UVB lamp to be diagonal across the whole cage. Chams aren't really all that smart, and don't know they need to go bask AND go sit under a UVB. By making it diagonal, he can bask and be getting UVB at the same time.

As far as getting rid of some of the branches... Are they hot glued? It's hard to tell. But if so, I think a paint stripper heat gun should be warm enough to soften the glue enough to remove them.
 
CalamityCrow said:
That's good to hear! Phone cameras can really warp what things look like lol.

But yeah I'd move the UVB lamp to be diagonal across the whole cage. Chams aren't really all that smart, and don't know they need to go bask AND go sit under a UVB. By making it diagonal, he can bask and be getting UVB at the same time.

As far as getting rid of some of the branches... Are they hot glued? It's hard to tell. But if so, I think a paint stripper heat gun should be warm enough to soften the glue enough to remove them.
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The bamboo ones are hot glued and fishing lined in and have a screw put in to the end and the screw is also hot glued, so it’s a lot of stuff going on, I’ll give a heat gun a whirl :) Thank You !!

Edit: just to clarify - I want to replace the bamboo with more traditional branches lol not get rid of them completely, he only had the bamboo when I got him with a bendy vine that’s already removed. So I’ve just added to it essentially
 
So, today is my work from home day, I’ve been inspecting him and I usually pull him out to check on the progress on Thursday’s. Today I noticed something with his eye! I’m attaching pics, looks kinda like a goop that is in there on the left eye. I can get better pics if needed. I’m not excited to actually find something wrong but I’m glad to see it pretty quickly and hope that with an actual symptom other than eyes closing we can get to a root cause!

Edit: added one more clearer left eye pic
 

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I’m going to have to say that a vet visit would be best. I’m not so sure if that looks like a piece of foreign matter or a malformation of the eye. If it were a particle of something, being in that position it surely would have been naturally expelled already. Adding to that is the way that the lower lid has a slight dip down. It looks to be in both eyes, but more prominent on the left. Whatever it may be, it’s not something I would mess with. Eyes are definitely best left to the vet.
 
MissSkittles said:
I’m going to have to say that a vet visit would be best. I’m not so sure if that looks like a piece of foreign matter or a malformation of the eye. If it were a particle of something, being in that position it surely would have been naturally expelled already. Adding to that is the way that the lower lid has a slight dip down. It looks to be in both eyes, but more prominent on the left. Whatever it may be, it’s not something I would mess with. Eyes are definitely best left to the vet.
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im on hold with the vet now, ill fill her in on what's happened in between visits. She's not listed on the "good" vets list. Has any other members had experience with Metropolitan Animal Vet out of Barberton OH / Cleveland.
 
He is scheduled for tomorrow at 11am

We are going to Cleveland east location
https://www.exoticpetvets.com/

If Jannb still has any Ohio suggestions I live in Alliance, OH 44601

Anything to request or ask the vet? I'll attempt to get a fecal but with such short notice I may not be able to. Again everyone, your help is appreciated! I will be reporting back the findings tomorrow :)
 
naterowley said:
He is scheduled for tomorrow at 11am

We are going to Cleveland east location
https://www.exoticpetvets.com/

If Jannb still has any Ohio suggestions I live in Alliance, OH 44601

Anything to request or ask the vet? I'll attempt to get a fecal but with such short notice I may not be able to. Again everyone, your help is appreciated! I will be reporting back the findings tomorrow :)
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Good luck! Hopefully its something minor with your panther's eye 🤞
 
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