shineru
New Member
Thanks ! i did not know but now i do, what do u recomment?
RESCUE JACk50N trying to bring him back to life;HELP;?!
- Thread starter shineru
- Start date
Thanks ! i did not know but now i do, what do u recomment?
xanthoman
Avid Member
likely gravid jmo.
i would say that she is likely gravid. she is not yet showing typical gravid coloration but not all do, plus the little dark flecks are likely a hint that she is working on more typical gravid coloration.
plus its not like getting them to do the deed is difficult. the male will be happy to do the deed consent or not. so based on all of that i would say that any 6 mth old female that has been housed with a male for more than a day or two, has likely been impregnated. this is why wild caught females are often gravid.
so the short answer is yes, i believe it is more probable than not, that she is gravid.
if you dont already have one, a small digital scale with tare feature and a range of about 0-500g in tenth gram increments would be a good investment for a gravid cham and husbandry issues in general.
they can be had in most local smoke shops for less than $20.
imo, a gravid female should be weighed weekly and a notebook kept. any gravid female will gain significant weight each week, sometimes several grams.
imo monitoring their weight is a good indicator of whats going on and may provide early warning of pending problems. scales are also helpful in figuring out some gutload and dietary issues. jmo.
i would say that she is likely gravid. she is not yet showing typical gravid coloration but not all do, plus the little dark flecks are likely a hint that she is working on more typical gravid coloration.
plus its not like getting them to do the deed is difficult. the male will be happy to do the deed consent or not. so based on all of that i would say that any 6 mth old female that has been housed with a male for more than a day or two, has likely been impregnated. this is why wild caught females are often gravid.
so the short answer is yes, i believe it is more probable than not, that she is gravid.
if you dont already have one, a small digital scale with tare feature and a range of about 0-500g in tenth gram increments would be a good investment for a gravid cham and husbandry issues in general.
they can be had in most local smoke shops for less than $20.
imo, a gravid female should be weighed weekly and a notebook kept. any gravid female will gain significant weight each week, sometimes several grams.
imo monitoring their weight is a good indicator of whats going on and may provide early warning of pending problems. scales are also helpful in figuring out some gutload and dietary issues. jmo.
xanthoman
Avid Member
here i go, trolling again.
having your first gravid animal can be really exciting, but imo, you are correct in your reservations. being gravid is often not a good thing. the reality is, she will need fairly good husbandry, if she is to have a healthy clutch and survive it.
giving birth is very hard on even healthy properly conditioned xanths.
mbd or other serious health issues are not all that uncommon after giving birth. i lost one of my most valued xanths ever after giving birth and resolved never to breed another especially prized animal.
having your first gravid animal can be really exciting, but imo, you are correct in your reservations. being gravid is often not a good thing. the reality is, she will need fairly good husbandry, if she is to have a healthy clutch and survive it.
giving birth is very hard on even healthy properly conditioned xanths.
mbd or other serious health issues are not all that uncommon after giving birth. i lost one of my most valued xanths ever after giving birth and resolved never to breed another especially prized animal.
shineru
New Member
Mhmphmm... i see.. your are 100% right
am going to try to take her to the vet this week, she seems pretty fat to me. but she keeps on falling , it seems that she cant really walk around her cage. not sure why but i try to keep her in the branchest. is there any proper care she needs?
P.s thanks so much for ur help man
xanthoman
Avid Member
about soil replacement.
note; schlefferra are often called "umbrella plant".
about soil replacement, it has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but imo, not sufficiently explained.
when you buy a plant that is potted in potting soil it may look perfectly healthy and as far as the plant itself is concerned, likely is.
but even a healthy plant that was originally potted in potting soil, on a microscopic level, almost always have microscopic organisms
that could potentially be harmful to your cham, even if your cham never touches the soil. the reason being is that eventually there are always cricks or other feeders that come in contact with the soil and in some cases even eat it or things contained in it. also some parasite are adhesive
given enough time any soil or soil like substrate will eventually grow micro organisms, many of which have the potential to be unhealthy for cham or even human, especially when you add cham poo to the mix.
so imo the way to overcome this is to repot your new plant (and about 1x a year thereafter) with a planting media that is
1. more hygienic than soil to begin with.
and
2. less conducive to growing potentially harmful micro organisms
3. even soil that is labeled as sterilized or pasteurized usually has a percentage of living organisms remaining, or at least their carcasses which could potentially encourage their re-growth.
there are several methods of doing this and i have posted mine several times. if i cant find the link, i'll just write it again, if you want it.
most methods involve hydroballs, sand, gravel, peat and or cocoa fibre etc.
without going into the entire process, it basically involves unpotting the plant, hosing all of the soil till the bare rootball is exposed, washing the plant, and then re-potting it with the chosen non-soil, planting media of choice.
my personal preference is for coconut fibre, often sold as eco earth, i usually get the 8qt bag is usually sufficient to repot a good size plant in a 10" pot. if you are a little short you can always ad some boiled sand or a few large boiled rocks. i dont recommend smaller gravel, because some always escapes and imo, pose a risk of impaction.
but usually one 8 qt bag is enough to get the job done, once repotted just give one generous shot of very diluted fertilizer and let drain, then cut a doughnut out of fiberglass or metal window screen to fit the top of your pot and around the plant as snug as possible. just cut a slit through one side of it, place it in the pot and cover with stones larger than 1" to hold the screen in place before placing in your cage. this help discourage feeders from getting directly to the top of the soil, and also lessens the chance that your cham will ingest the soil-less soil if he happens to snag the occasional feeder off of the top of the pot.
as i mentioned before, plants in soiless soil, or cham environments sometimes dont do that well, a common approach to this is just to have a second plant that you rotate with the plant in the cage every few mths or so, that way you can clean, re-pot, or bring them back to life at your leisure. and you always have a fresh thriving plant to put in your cage. jmo.
of course this is just my way which is certainly not the only viable way, but in case you didnt catch it in the massive wall of text in my earlier post, imo, all you need in the way of plants is one large schlefferra which you can probably get at home depot for less than $20 i recommend schlefferra because they offer the plant qualities that jacksons like, and also stand up to "soil-less soil replacement" better than most other cham safe plants. it should fill about 80-85% of the cage , if you cant find one the right size, its ok to buy a slightly larger one and trim it to fit, they stand up well to that.
note; schlefferra are often called "umbrella plant".
about soil replacement, it has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but imo, not sufficiently explained.
when you buy a plant that is potted in potting soil it may look perfectly healthy and as far as the plant itself is concerned, likely is.
but even a healthy plant that was originally potted in potting soil, on a microscopic level, almost always have microscopic organisms
that could potentially be harmful to your cham, even if your cham never touches the soil. the reason being is that eventually there are always cricks or other feeders that come in contact with the soil and in some cases even eat it or things contained in it. also some parasite are adhesive
given enough time any soil or soil like substrate will eventually grow micro organisms, many of which have the potential to be unhealthy for cham or even human, especially when you add cham poo to the mix.
so imo the way to overcome this is to repot your new plant (and about 1x a year thereafter) with a planting media that is
1. more hygienic than soil to begin with.
and
2. less conducive to growing potentially harmful micro organisms
3. even soil that is labeled as sterilized or pasteurized usually has a percentage of living organisms remaining, or at least their carcasses which could potentially encourage their re-growth.
there are several methods of doing this and i have posted mine several times. if i cant find the link, i'll just write it again, if you want it.
most methods involve hydroballs, sand, gravel, peat and or cocoa fibre etc.
without going into the entire process, it basically involves unpotting the plant, hosing all of the soil till the bare rootball is exposed, washing the plant, and then re-potting it with the chosen non-soil, planting media of choice.
my personal preference is for coconut fibre, often sold as eco earth, i usually get the 8qt bag is usually sufficient to repot a good size plant in a 10" pot. if you are a little short you can always ad some boiled sand or a few large boiled rocks. i dont recommend smaller gravel, because some always escapes and imo, pose a risk of impaction.
but usually one 8 qt bag is enough to get the job done, once repotted just give one generous shot of very diluted fertilizer and let drain, then cut a doughnut out of fiberglass or metal window screen to fit the top of your pot and around the plant as snug as possible. just cut a slit through one side of it, place it in the pot and cover with stones larger than 1" to hold the screen in place before placing in your cage. this help discourage feeders from getting directly to the top of the soil, and also lessens the chance that your cham will ingest the soil-less soil if he happens to snag the occasional feeder off of the top of the pot.
as i mentioned before, plants in soiless soil, or cham environments sometimes dont do that well, a common approach to this is just to have a second plant that you rotate with the plant in the cage every few mths or so, that way you can clean, re-pot, or bring them back to life at your leisure. and you always have a fresh thriving plant to put in your cage. jmo.
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xanthoman
Avid Member
falling, not because of fat.
just to be clear falling is not normal no matter how fat they are. falling is a red flag of a significant metabolic imbalance of one sort or another.
i would get it to the vet asap and withold food (except for what is required to deliver a match of plain cal a week) or vitamins until you do. the daytime dripper is the biggest issue for the time being would also recommend posting a help form specific to this animal. vets can be great at saving animals but often their medicinal approach is not the best for long term husbandry. so a helpform for each specific animal that is not doing well, is recommended jmo.
just to be clear falling is not normal no matter how fat they are. falling is a red flag of a significant metabolic imbalance of one sort or another.
i would get it to the vet asap and withold food (except for what is required to deliver a match of plain cal a week) or vitamins until you do. the daytime dripper is the biggest issue for the time being would also recommend posting a help form specific to this animal. vets can be great at saving animals but often their medicinal approach is not the best for long term husbandry. so a helpform for each specific animal that is not doing well, is recommended jmo.
xanthoman
Avid Member
falling, not because of fat.
just to be clear falling is not normal no matter how fat they are. falling is a red flag of a significant metabolic imbalance of one sort or another.
i would get it to the vet asap and withold food (except for what is required to deliver a match of plain cal a week) or vitamins until you do. the daytime dripper is the biggest issue for the time being would also recommend posting a help form specific to this animal. vets can be great at saving animals but often their medicinal approach is not the best for long term husbandry. so a helpform for each specific animal that is not doing well, is recommended jmo.
ps. coconut fibre also comes in bricks which i do not recommend.
also, to be clear this can be an important issue, but i do not think it is a high priority for now, more of a long term husbandry issue jmo
just to be clear falling is not normal no matter how fat they are. falling is a red flag of a significant metabolic imbalance of one sort or another.
i would get it to the vet asap and withold food (except for what is required to deliver a match of plain cal a week) or vitamins until you do. the daytime dripper is the biggest issue for the time being would also recommend posting a help form specific to this animal. vets can be great at saving animals but often their medicinal approach is not the best for long term husbandry. so a helpform for each specific animal that is not doing well, is recommended jmo.
ps. coconut fibre also comes in bricks which i do not recommend.
also, to be clear this can be an important issue, but i do not think it is a high priority for now, more of a long term husbandry issue jmo
shineru
New Member
thanks, a lot to think about n work on, in chris cage i do have an umbrella plant. am thinkin of getting more in side the cages, do u recoment anything on how to make them think its heavy raining? also why isnt good to buy the bricks of eco eart? i herd that it gives u more, dnt they?
anyhow when i first got the female she seem to feel verry soft and delicated but after me taking care of her she starting to feel better, the samething happen with the male jacksoni when i first got him and held him. he feld the same, way but now they seem much better. but the female still that weird right like on here sometimes she turns it the other way , and it looks like its broken.?=l
anyhow when i first got the female she seem to feel verry soft and delicated but after me taking care of her she starting to feel better, the samething happen with the male jacksoni when i first got him and held him. he feld the same, way but now they seem much better. but the female still that weird right like on here sometimes she turns it the other way , and it looks like its broken.?=l
xanthoman
Avid Member
if you get your cage well planted and use the $9 pump sprayer pictured in my cf, mist till drenching 5x a day, imo, that will be plenty, imo, to get it any closer to raining would take a mist king or similar setup. certainly the preferred setup in a perfect world but imo, not necessary to succeed.
as far as eco earth in bricks you do get more volume for the buck, and it is made out of the same stuff, but the bricks are a hassle to get hydrated and fully out of brick form(requires the use of too much water and hot water works best., and even though they are made out of the same stuff, there is a significant difference in the product. the bricks contain longer coarser fibers and the end product is not as dirt like. i have used them both and much prefer the ready to go fluffy, finely cut loose product over the more stringy coarser product from the bricks. also, having the product loose, ready to go, and reasonably dry, greatly reduces the hassle of repotting.
the brick will work, but its a hassle and i dont personally think it works quite as well. personally, i would just rather spend $10 a bag for a consistant better texture ready to go product, than pay $5 for the brick and deal with the hassle of a lesser product.
at the petco near me bricks were $5, the 8qt bags were $10, one brick 650g makes about 8qts. those are local prices, i know you can get the bricks online for dirt cheap (3for$5+shipping), but imo theres a reason for that. imo its just not as good of a product as the stuff in the bags.
the stuff in then bags is sort of like loose peat moss, and very dirt like. the bricks are sort of like those plastic scour pads, it takes a lot of chopping and screwing around. and is still never the consistancy as the stuff in the bags. jmo
how many animals do you have total? maybe if you explained to your vet that you were trying to do a rescue, maybe you could talk them into a single office visit or at least a decent break, for bring all of your animals in at once? imo, it would be $ well spent. jmo
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shineru
New Member
Yea, you do make a point about the bricks. i like the fact that with the bricks i can use hotwater ( not from the sick, i make sure its clean water that i would drink ) mix with reptisafe. just to make sure everything in those stuff wont hurt her, with the bag already made i feel that am not 100% sure how they pre made it. jmo but am currently housing 3 chameleon's 1 baby bearder dragon and i have a razor edge bully breed gotii line blue nose & a lhasa upsa, soo yess i do think i need to work something out with them
thanks for the idea tho
xanthoman
Avid Member
just to be clear imo, the hot water is not a good thing, it turns the fiber to stringy muck, so you have to cool it down,wring it out/dry it, before you can use it for repotting, and when you are finished it is still not as dirt like consistency as the bagged product, and doesnt work as well for the plants jmo.Yea, you do make a point about the bricks. i like the fact that with the bricks i can use hotwater ( not from the sick, i make sure its clean water that i would drink ) mix with reptisafe. just to make sure everything in those stuff wont hurt her, with the bag already made i feel that am not 100% sure how they pre made it. jmo but am currently housing 3 chameleon's 1 baby bearder dragon and i have a razor edge bully breed gotii line blue nose & a lhasa upsa, soo yess i do think i need to work something out with them
shineru
New Member
yea i was just thinking the same thing, in the other hand what do you think of hydro balls ? as to cover the top of the plant so my chameleons or her feeders dont dig into the soil?
Tanya77
New Member
I agree he needs to be closer to his basking and UV lighting and needs more lush foliage and tons more branches even a live plant would do good for him.
He doesn't appear to be dehydrated either and he looks like he's been well fed as well..
I have a Jackson, fairly new at it but have learned a lot being here.. They say they need higher humidity and temps a little cooler then your other Chameleons, I was told basking area no higher then 85 degree's and you need to mist him as often as possible. Also try to be sure you have a dry area as well as a wet area - be careful with bedding.
I ran into a situation where Spike retracted some bedding with his food and well I just took out the bedding and keep paper towels on the bottom and clean it often due to the moisture and when he poops and pee's. It works for me cause I can monitor what his stools and urine looks like from looking at the paper towels. I haven't had any problems - that was what a breeder recommended, but said to make sure that when they get wet, replace them with dry.. That's very important because of bacteria building.
If you have further questions you can search for a person named "Solid Snake" he has a lot of experience with Jacksons. He's been helping me with questions I have.. Good luck with your new friend! Please keep us updated.. He's cute!
Tanya
He doesn't appear to be dehydrated either and he looks like he's been well fed as well..
I have a Jackson, fairly new at it but have learned a lot being here.. They say they need higher humidity and temps a little cooler then your other Chameleons, I was told basking area no higher then 85 degree's and you need to mist him as often as possible. Also try to be sure you have a dry area as well as a wet area - be careful with bedding.
I ran into a situation where Spike retracted some bedding with his food and well I just took out the bedding and keep paper towels on the bottom and clean it often due to the moisture and when he poops and pee's. It works for me cause I can monitor what his stools and urine looks like from looking at the paper towels. I haven't had any problems - that was what a breeder recommended, but said to make sure that when they get wet, replace them with dry.. That's very important because of bacteria building.
If you have further questions you can search for a person named "Solid Snake" he has a lot of experience with Jacksons. He's been helping me with questions I have..
Good luck with your new friend! Please keep us updated.. He's cute! Tanya
shineru
New Member
I agree he needs to be closer to his basking and UV lighting and needs more lush foliage and tons more branches even a live plant would do good for him.
He doesn't appear to be dehydrated either and he looks like he's been well fed as well..
I have a Jackson, fairly new at it but have learned a lot being here.. They say they need higher humidity and temps a little cooler then your other Chameleons, I was told basking area no higher then 85 degree's and you need to mist him as often as possible. Also try to be sure you have a dry area as well as a wet area - be careful with bedding.
I ran into a situation where Spike retracted some bedding with his food and well I just took out the bedding and keep paper towels on the bottom and clean it often due to the moisture and when he poops and pee's. It works for me cause I can monitor what his stools and urine looks like from looking at the paper towels. I haven't had any problems - that was what a breeder recommended, but said to make sure that when they get wet, replace them with dry.. That's very important because of bacteria building.
If you have further questions you can search for a person named "Solid Snake" he has a lot of experience with Jacksons. He's been helping me with questions I have..
Tanya
thank you very much, it was helpful. i will deffenaly hit him up
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