Why is it a bad idea to get hatchlings?

[ChameleonClem]

I have absolutely no idea how long my babies are. At three months, my quads and graciliors are about 4g. That's the minimum I will ship them at and even then, I will grow them out longer if the person is a novice. I've found motivated novices to do better with my animals than experienced keepers, but they have to be motivated.

Good strong babies are tough. They aren't fragile, but, they are tiny and can dehydrate in a heart beat. That's what makes them tricky.

So then in theory couldnt you just set your misting system to mist more often? To keep them from being dehydrated?
Its ironic about what you said about motivated novices vs experienced keepers but better safe than sorry i always say.
Getting to hatch chameleons would be a dream but, im definitely not even close to that experienced.

 

[jajeanpierre]

So then in theory couldnt you just set your misting system to mist more often? To keep them from being dehydrated?
Its ironic about what you said about motivated novices vs experienced keepers but better safe than sorry i always say.
Getting to hatch chameleons would be a dream but, im definitely not even close to that experienced.

Good strong babies are not difficult at all. You absolutely could set the misters on to compensate. Trouble is, many people are not quite honest about how long they mist for.

Honestly, I think a novice is a better home for my quads and graciliors than an experienced person. Part of it is that they are so afraid to do anything wrong. If they send me a picture and if I don't like what I see (maybe the color is a little too brown) they panic and go crazy to make sure they get their husbandry right. Ask @maryanne27 how much angst she went through to feel confident her Olivander was set up right. I've seen pictures of my babies posted on the internet and have been aghast at their color. I will contact the owners and point out they are not looking right and be told all is well. I can see with my own eyes all is not well but they don't listen to me because they are "experts." Personally, I prefer to sell to novices. I'm selling a gracilior to a rank novice who has never owned a chameleon before. They'll do fine with him. It's taken me a lot of time and effort, but I believe the animal will be fine. I'll be there for the owner, too, of course.

 

[WAMBO]

I have absolutely no idea how long my babies are. At three months, my quads and graciliors are about 4g. That's the minimum I will ship them at and even then, I will grow them out longer if the person is a novice. I've found motivated novices to do better with my animals than experienced keepers, but they have to be motivated.

Good strong babies are tough. They aren't fragile, but, they are tiny and can dehydrate in a heart beat. That's what makes them tricky.

If they can get dehydrated in a heart beat, then that is the very definition of being fragile. You may be thinking of the literal term of easy to break.

 

[jajeanpierre]

If they can get dehydrated in a heart beat, then that is the very definition of being fragile. You may be thinking of the literal term of easy to break.

I guess, but to me fragile is being something that is intrinsically difficult and babies aren't difficult.

It's true, babies do dehydrate easily. Even if they don't die immediately, they might suffer kidney damage.

Are baby chickens fragile? I don't think so but if you over heat them once, you can cause them to develop visceral gout and kidney failure. Or if they run out of water once....

How do you judge "fragile"? Is it the margin for error?

 

[ChameleonClem]

Good strong babies are not difficult at all. You absolutely could set the misters on to compensate. Trouble is, many people are not quite honest about how long they mist for.

Honestly, I think a novice is a better home for my quads and graciliors than an experienced person. Part of it is that they are so afraid to do anything wrong. If they send me a picture and if I don't like what I see (maybe the color is a little too brown) they panic and go crazy to make sure they get their husbandry right. Ask @maryanne27 how much angst she went through to feel confident her Olivander was set up right. I've seen pictures of my babies posted on the internet and have been aghast at their color. I will contact the owners and point out they are not looking right and be told all is well. I can see with my own eyes all is not well but they don't listen to me because they are "experts." Personally, I prefer to sell to novices. I'm selling a gracilior to a rank novice who has never owned a chameleon before. They'll do fine with him. It's taken me a lot of time and effort, but I believe the animal will be fine. I'll be there for the owner, too, of course.

Its great to see youre so involved with your buyers! Would be very helpful as an expirenced owner or a first timer. Honestly in hobbies like this where there are alot of experienced people who have amazing setups, its difficult to learn from alot of them because theyre so concerned that theyre right rather than answering a question. I definitely understand what you meant about beginners being terrified of something going wrong, I definitely was, i still am, but im a bit more comfortable now. I do love getting advice and tips though. Chameleons are such amazing creatures .
I find it surprising people feel they have to lie about how long they mist! Its not like it takes any effort when you have a machine.
Im definitely intrigued to hear maryanne27's story though!

 

[WAMBO]

I guess, but to me fragile is being something that is intrinsically difficult and babies aren't difficult.

It's true, babies do dehydrate easily. Even if they don't die immediately, they might suffer kidney damage.

Are baby chickens fragile? I don't think so but if you over heat them once, you can cause them to develop visceral gout and kidney failure. Or if they run out of water once....

How do you judge "fragile"? Is it the margin for error?

Pretty simple. By the very standard definition. If they are vulnerable, delicate, easier dehydrated, harmed, over heated, or even just easy to squish between two fingers.

 

[Nursemaia]

I bought a baby melleri from jpowell86 and I'm obsessive over him. He was only 3 gm when I got him and I probably drove Joel crazy with my questions and pics making sure he was doing ok. He was my first baby montane species. I'm not exactly a novice keeper but I didn't want to do anything wrong with him. They have a huge water requirement and I mist him 50 minutes in the morning and then 8 minutes 2 more times after that. He's grown to 22 gm and is getting a nice little horn on his snout.

 

[WAMBO]

The bottom line to the OP is if it is easier or more difficult to care for hatchlings [ vs juvi's or adults].

 

[Andee]

In my opinion it IS harder to care for them plain and simple, it's not impossible at all, otherwise there would be no breeders out there, I would not personally get a hatchling shipped. If I got a hatchling it would likely be at a breeder near me (which I don't know of any) or it would be from a show. But I also would be obsessive with the questions I asked and health check I gave the baby before taking it home. In my opinion it is normal practice for breeders not to sell under 3 months and some not under 5-6 months depending on the species, because there are a huge risk with hatchlings and then the breeders may be blamed when they aren't or the keeper could be when they aren''t to blame for either. But not everyone is to blame all the time, sometimes babies die, sometimes they do great, sometimes it is someone's fault. It all depends on the particular situation. 3 months is usually the safer time to send a cham out because they are usually just... heartier at the time because they do have extra fall back if something just stops going right.

So the take from that huge paragraph, if you want more success go for 3-6 months. And definitely go for someone who loves their chameleons and knows what their doing. Breeders who will answer your emails without any issue are a huge plus. I always search for breeders like that.

 

[ChamLB]

One reason we wait to sell hatchlings is so we can be certain of the sex of the chameleon. I don't want anyone to be disappointed with what they get. We also wait just to keep people from having a bad experience. The older the hatchling the better the chances of success. These lil guys are our kids in a way and we want them to thrive.