Curious Gardener: What did I find?

[Olimpia]

Have you even been reading the posts? No one has once said screw it do whatever. My whole point is you shouldn't release a captive animal into the wild because it's just that a captive animal. Nothing can change what already is but fear is what causes people to lose liberty and freedoms and it's potentially about to happen to our hobby if this HYPE isn't put in check.

Have you? It's not hype, invasive species have actual, quantifiable consequences.

I get that no one wants our rights or pets taken away from us but pretending it's all unrealistically blown out of proportion isn't the right way to go about this. Most of it is completely understated, and it's a shame.

 

[sandrachameleon]

This is my biggest fear as you have seen yourself. Govt will just flat out ban it like they do everything else.

given the ignorance about the very real (not hype) problems from invasive introduced species that have been stated even on a forum like this, maybe your govenment isnt wrong. apparently education hasnt helped so far.

 

[Colorful Creatures]

Have you? It's not hype, invasive species have actual, quantifiable consequences.

I get that no one wants our rights or pets taken away from us but pretending it's all unrealistically blown out of proportion isn't the right way to go about this. Most of it is completely understated, and it's a shame.

Well everyone's is entitled to their position but I'm speaking of reptiles only and it's overstated not understated. Just my opinion, Not going to try to change point of views.

 

[Colorful Creatures]

given the ignorance about the very real (not hype) problems from invasive introduced species that have been stated even on a forum like this, maybe your govenment isnt wrong. apparently education hasnt helped so far.

Only someone from a socialist country would think their government is ever right.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Well everyone's is entitled to their position but I'm speaking of reptiles only and it's overstated not understated. Just my opinion, Not going to try to change point of views.

Your opinion based on what exactly? Your desire for reality not to negatively effect your hobby? You keep brushing off the impact of invasive species (including reptiles) as overstated, etc., but you have nothing to show that they are or to discount the studies that have shown they are. I agree that I don't want to see my ability to have these animals as pets taken away and that media can hype up scientific findings, but I'm not going to reduce myself to ignorance in an effort to deny that invasive species have detrimental effect on native environments. Unfortunately the impact of few invasive species have actually been quantified and the true impacts can take decades to realize. I'd love to see any type of data from anyone who simply dismisses the potential problems caused by invasive species.

Chris

 

[camaleonte82]

Watch a single episode of "Swamp Wars" and you will hear over and over again about the affects of the python population on the state of Florida. something small and harmless might not attach humans or animals but it can still affect our eco system. Africanized Bees, Pythons, even plants such as Kudzu can change the chain of command in nature which can affect alot.

 

[Colorful Creatures]

Your opinion based on what exactly? Your desire for reality not to negatively effect your hobby? You keep brushing off the impact of invasive species (including reptiles) as overstated, etc., but you have nothing to show that they are or to discount the studies that have shown they are. I agree that I don't want to see my ability to have these animals as pets taken away and that media can hype up scientific findings, but I'm not going to reduce myself to ignorance in an effort to deny that invasive species have detrimental effect on native environments. Unfortunately the impact of few invasive species have actually been quantified and the true impacts can take decades to realize. I'd love to see any type of data from anyone who simply dismisses the potential problems caused by invasive species.

Chris

I agree that there have been several detrimental invasive species, the pig being probably the most destructive. I'm just saying reptiles aren't potentially detrimental here in the us except Florida as which what I've already said. I also think there is some difference of opinions of what is considered detrimental.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I agree that there have been several detrimental invasive species, the pig being probably the most destructive. I'm just saying reptiles aren't potentially detrimental here in the us except Florida as which what I've already said. I also think there is some difference of opinions of what is considered detrimental.

You're also brushing with incredibly broad strokes in an attempt to justify your point. Not every reptile has the same environmental requirements and what may only have the potential to be a problem in South Florida may not be the same as another species that can cause a problem in Canada (as pointed out above). Just because we don't immediately perceive something as detrimental also does not mean that its impact is not considerably negative. Again, I don't want to see stupid people cause problems that get broadened to regulatory levels that are unnecessary, but I adamantly refuse to abandon common sense and scientific evidence in an effort to contort realities so that they better suit my desires.

Chris

 

[sandrachameleon]

Only someone from a socialist country would think their government is ever right.

what on earth are you talking about? Your comment makes no sense, and is totally unrelated to the quote you attached it to?

I think I smell a troll

 

[stepho]

Exactly my point none are reptiles just a bunch of grass and trees you don't hear about them banning trees.

What??? In my state having certain trees will get you a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years, $500,000 fine, and your license revoked for 2 years... That's way worse than what the Dubia roach guy got.

Just thought I would derail this thread with more politics...

 

[Colorful Creatures]

What??? In my state having certain trees will get you a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years, $500,000 fine, and your license revoked for 2 years... That's way worse than what the Dubia roach guy got.

Just thought I would derail this thread with more politics...

That's interesting, but I never said that there aren't banned plants or mammals but there is no outward movement to ban or regulate ALL of the plant trade to this level, just primarily reptiles. What did the dubia guy get, I haven't heard about that either.

 

[Colorful Creatures]

what on earth are you talking about? Your comment makes no sense, and is totally unrelated to the quote you attached it to?

I think I smell a troll

You stated our gov't may be right and the only people who look to gov't for answers and solutions are socialists. Not meaning you specifically being you live in a monarchy but we don't believe gov't does anything right here in America.

 

[Chris Anderson]

You stated our gov't may be right and the only people who look to gov't for answers and solutions are socialists. Not meaning you specifically being you live in a monarchy but we don't believe gov't does anything right here in America.

How exactly does reducing to insinuating that people are socialists because they have a different point of view than you improve your argument? You've been asked to provide a single piece of evidence to support your claims and you haven't. You claim that all these scientific studies are overstated but have you actually read more than a single scientific study (not a news piece on a study, an actual peer review journal article) on the topic ever?

Chris

 

[Elizadolots]

Colorful, you have to concede that reptile and mammals have the worst press when it comes to invasive species.

I'll be honest, I don't see why releasing this little baby back to the "wild" would be horrible. Florida has a fairly well established Veiled presence and this one animal is not going to be the final straw that destroys the ecosystem. If it were some other type of chameleon, I would definitely say "no, don't put it back!".

However, baby chameleons in the wild have a low chance of survival (that's why Mommy lays so many eggs, to make sure enough survive to keep the species growing), so this little one (who's already managed to be found by a human) is probably not destined to survive in the wild. There are board members nearby who would happily take this baby and keep him safe and hopefully have him as a companion for years. Why not do that?

 

[CamiGirl89]

....... Ahem.

Cute little find there, the only thing I uproot in my gardens are earthworms and pill-bugs. What an exciting find! Keep us posted on how this little one is doing, I am interested to see how it develops, especially given the conditions to which it was found! Definitely not a native species by any means, for that is no Anole! Nothing I would expect to just find!

 

[Colorful Creatures]

How exactly does reducing to insinuating that people are socialists because they have a different point of view than you improve your argument? You've been asked to provide a single piece of evidence to support your claims and you haven't. You claim that all these scientific studies are overstated but have you actually read more than a single scientific study (not a news piece on a study, an actual peer review journal article) on the topic ever?

Chris

Its not to prove my point, she asked what I meant and like I said it really has nothing to do with any issue here really but someone in my opinion who wants govt to regulate is a socialist. And I as I said not necessarily saying she is one but that's definitely a core idea of one. The studies also show in florida that 3 counties are affected by burmese and nile monitors so yeah to me a pretty minimal and not a threat to the whole united states. Those are just the ones that have the most outcry in the media. Look, I'm not saying that invasive species don't exist or aren't good for the ecology. I stated quite the opposite, but what started this whole thing was the initial outcry to not release this animal to the wild was that it could turn into one. My point is that it shouldn't be let loose because it's a pet not a wild animal and people shouldn't do it for that reason alone. Evasive species are going to happen with regulation, banning, or doing nothing at all. I also already stated that these studies you speak of are motivated by need for funding and I am definitely not the only person in this hobby with this opinion (USARK), so I'm not going to argue about studies. You are a great person in the community and so I'm definitely not trying to argue knowledge with you.

 

[Colorful Creatures]

Colorful, you have to concede that reptile and mammals have the worst press when it comes to invasive species.

I'll be honest, I don't see why releasing this little baby back to the "wild" would be horrible. Florida has a fairly well established Veiled presence and this one animal is not going to be the final straw that destroys the ecosystem. If it were some other type of chameleon, I would definitely say "no, don't put it back!".

However, baby chameleons in the wild have a low chance of survival (that's why Mommy lays so many eggs, to make sure enough survive to keep the species growing), so this little one (who's already managed to be found by a human) is probably not destined to survive in the wild. There are board members nearby who would happily take this baby and keep him safe and hopefully have him as a companion for years. Why not do that?

I've already said this, never release anything to the wild. Like I said reptiles have by far the worst reputation for being an invasive species, that's my whole point.

 

[Elizadolots]

I've already said this, never release anything to the wild. Like I said reptiles have by far the worst reputation for being an invasive species, that's my whole point.

Okay...and I fully understand that another poster brought in the whole "invasive species" thing, but the original poster didn't have that in mind and color me stupid, but I think we should try to respect the original poster as much as possible.

So, why take it up a notch? Why not just focus on the current issue and why it's a good idea to let a board member take that animal?

I think you have the makings of a good discussion (and, hey, Chris Anderson seems on board to participate, that's a huge gift) so start that thread and get that discussion going.

But this little baby? It really deserves to be put in the hands of someone who will care for it and raise it to a big beautiful animal. I sort of look forward to watching that happen.

 

[CamiGirl89]

Take little blessings as they come, and this little burried treasure was just that! I agree 100% with Eliza. I am excited to watch this guy grow. NO debate about it!

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

I wonder how it got there.