Face Mask

[DocZ]

COVID is the third leading cause of death in the US behind cancer and heart disease this year

More than chronic lung and kidney disease, more than strokes, more than ahlzheimers, currently more than ALL accidental deaths (usually #3), I keep hearing the BS inflated numbers argument. For sake of argument, by how much are they inflated? 10%, 20%, 30%? If you want to go with 30%, guess what, it’s still the #3 or 4 leading cause of death this year. And if you look at epidemiological data on past pandemics, the numbers for infections and deaths are usually grossly underestimated. Here’s the estimated data for the swine flu in 09-10, which had 18500 laboratory confirmed worldwide deaths
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(12)70121-4/fulltext

By reopening our country in May and June, we’ve made the spread of the virus nearly impossible to control. if everyone wears masks, it will reduce spread of the virus. It’s simple to do. Your f—ing rights aren’t being violated. You are showing that this country and the people in it mean something to you, and you’re not a selfish a-hole

sorry I’m tired of the whole situation

 

[jamest0o0]

COVID is the third leading cause of death in the US behind cancer and heart disease this year

More than chronic lung and kidney disease, more than strokes, more than ahlzheimers, currently more than ALL accidental deaths (usually #3), I keep hearing the BS inflated numbers argument. For sake of argument, by how much are they inflated? 10%, 20%, 30%? If you want to go with 30%, guess what, it’s still the #3 or 4 leading cause of death this year. And if you look at epidemiological data on past pandemics, the numbers for infections and deaths are usually grossly underestimated. Here’s the estimated data for the swine flu in 09-10, which had 18500 laboratory confirmed worldwide deaths
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(12)70121-4/fulltext

By reopening our country in May and June, we’ve made the spread of the virus nearly impossible to control. if everyone wears masks, it will reduce spread of the virus. It’s simple to do. Your f—ing rights aren’t being violated. You are showing that this country and the people in it mean something to you, and you’re not a selfish a-hole

sorry I’m tired of the whole situation

Who's arguing about masks? The problem I have is the MAJOR hypocrisy going on. Wear the masks whatever, but why can't life go on other wise(to the best of our abilities)? Why is no one talking about healthy living? The first 2 leading causes of deaths are largely attributed to unhealthy lifestyle(no not all the time, but MOST)... so the third could be as well. Also, severely hurt our country's economy because this is so dangerous, but encourage riots and looting? You see the media lie day after day about everything. "Healthy 17 year old dies"... find out later he was 400 lbs and diabetic... No that's practically child abuse...
And why don't the vulnerable stay indoors and we spend time/money helping them while the rest of us get back to our lives?

Discussion is old though because there's not much more to say. No one is going to change my mind with any of the info that is available atm and IDT I'm going to change anyone's. I just have a lack of faith in organizations/media/etc that routinely skew what they're putting out. I always feel if something is so legitimate or illegitimate, why would there be a need to lie about it. An example, not to go way off course, but to give you an idea of what I mean... people will talk about a politician's tax plan being so terrible. Maybe it is, idk and idc, not the point, but the opposing media would lie about what the plan actually was. If it was so bad at face value, why would you need to lie about what it is. That's how I feel about the covid coverage.

Lastly, I am no biologist so maybe someone can tell me if this a thing, but why are the cases way up, but the severity of cases way down? I've heard young people, which makes sense, they were most of the protestors. However, and this is just based on what I personally saw, but my one relative with a history of lung problems, obese, cigg smoker, etc got over it recently in TWO days. Sure that's not everyone, but that's pretty crazy to me considering how deadly this virus is supposed to be. Another one, not super heavy, but a smoker got over it as well in two days. Could it be the virus mutated to be more infectious/less deadly? Do they do that or is that not possible?

 

[DocZ]

“ Why is no one talking about healthy living? The first 2 leading causes of deaths are largely attributed to unhealthy lifestyle(no not all the time, but MOST)... so the third could be as well.” I’m pretty sure there’s been wide ranging local and national health initiatives for many years trying to reduce many of these things, “sin taxes” on cigarettes, etc. Most people say it’s their right and do what they want, or they tote guns around government offices whining they want to get their hair cut.

Locking up the vulnerable will not stop everyone else dragging this back to them and many of them will die. If my kids go to school, they won’t see their grandparents

Media lying or emphasizing some random case doesn’t disprove or diminish the danger of the virus

Deaths going up will depend in part on whether the local medical systems become overwhelmed. They are vastly better prepared Nationally than they were when this first came into our country. This matters too. Hospital systems have much better protocols and procedures than previously. Ours changed constantly as planned and reacted to new And future challenges

I am so glad your family member didn’t die, and if fact most people don’t, which is great. 95+% get the disease and move on after it runs its course, but it’s a more nasty combination of infectivity and lethality than any other infectious disease in our country or the world right now

There’s no treatment, no vaccine, no end in sight

 

[Beman]

We all need to learn to never bring up controversial anything in the forum and only stick to chameleons. Pretty sure I am partly at fault for this convo going sideways. This happens every time opinions slip in.

There are so many different opinions on this particular topic. Regardless of ones opinion on the matter, the truth is everyone has been touched by it in different ways. Loss of life, loss of income, loss of normalcy, loss of education, loss of business, loss of connection, loss of safety, and so many others... It is all loss. Many of us being hit with multiple impacts from this disaster.

For me it is important to hold on to the good things.. Because honestly the losses have impacted me greatly and when I sit in that feeling it does nothing for myself or my family. Keeping them safe and keeping my daughter in good spirits is what keeps me moving forward through this. Remembering that I am not the only one being impacted by it.

My 2 cents...

 

[DocZ]

We all need to learn to never bring up controversial anything in the forum and only stick to chameleons. Pretty sure I am partly at fault for this convo going sideways. This happens every time opinions slip in.

There are so many different opinions on this particular topic. Regardless of ones opinion on the matter, the truth is everyone has been touched by it in different ways. Loss of life, loss of income, loss of normalcy, loss of education, loss of business, loss of connection, loss of safety, and so many others... It is all loss. Many of us being hit with multiple impacts from this disaster.

For me it is important to hold on to the good things.. Because honestly the losses have impacted me greatly and when I sit in that feeling it does nothing for myself or my family. Keeping them safe and keeping my daughter in good spirits is what keeps me moving forward through this. Remembering that I am not the only one being impacted by it.

My 2 cents...

Nothing controversial about chameleons ?
I agree it’s important to remember the positive aspects of life.

 

[AmandaS]

It is seriously harming her education. I so wish she was not in High School right now. She is taking multiple AP classes in the fall and I am soooooo worried that it will be a disaster with them doing distance learning. She was staying up until 9pm to try to get assignments done because they were not providing instruction, it was so crazy.

High school is a HUGE issue bc of exams etc but for middle schoolers there's not much effect to us

It is terrible for all students. Middle school is a TOUGH couple years when it comes to academics. A lot of children fall behind in middle school and pick it back up in high school. I know Hayleys grades were starting to drop a little pre-covid, and me sitting on top of her to do her work was helpful, but not enough. I feel terrible for the students right now. It is definitely hindering their future.

 

[Beman]

It is terrible for all students. Middle school is a TOUGH couple years when it comes to academics. A lot of children fall behind in middle school and pick it back up in high school. I know Hayleys grades were starting to drop a little pre-covid, and me sitting on top of her to do her work was helpful, but not enough. I feel terrible for the students right now. It is definitely hindering their future.

So hard for us to see our babies suffer for something that is out of our control... I think that is what hurts me the most. I am dealing with all the other losses involved. Even the financial hits I am now taking but to see my daughter hurt by something that I can not fix kills me. I am the one that is supposed to make it all better and this is one thing that is out of my hands.

 

[snitz427]

@jamest0o0 the severity is down because the treatment is evolving and getting better. In the beginning, no one knew what to do. They didn’t know what it effected. Now we have some idea about how it affects the body as a whole. What treatments are more effective then others, etc. for example, they now know that laying patients in prone position helps, they know clotting is a major complication that they have to combat during treatment, they have a better understanding of how it affects the lungs, etc.

I dont blame the rioters/protestors (who are mostly masked up), any more then I blame the people packing into the bars and beaches without masks. They’re all breaking distancing guidelines... but some are doing it for a cause, some are doing it for a beer.

My brother is being buried this weekend. Half my family cannot attend, because my state is now a red state... requiring them to quarantine for 2 weeks in both directions. We are now a red state because we reopened too soon, and people are being very irresponsible. Bars are packed, gyms are packed, beaches are packed. People are going about their lives and its catching up to us now. Its only been about a month that weve reopened.

 

[kinyonga]

Too many people are taking the word "re-open" to mean go back to the way it was before covid I think....before social distancing, hand washing and masks.

 

[DocZ]

“I keep hearing and seeing the opposite—that the actual numbers are likely considerably higher—6, 10, 24 times higher. Not looking for an argument—it's what I'm hearing and seeing. YMMV.”

the numbers are higher, but assuming that the death numbers are spot and just the only infected are higher is highly unlikely. From the study I quoted before, an estimated 200,000 to 500,000 people died from the swine flu with only 18500 confirmed worldwide deaths, the infected numbers were much higher as well.

So is the actual death rate is lower than 3%, most likely yes, but it’s still likely to be in 0.5-1% range 5-10 times the seasonal flu. The H1N1 pandemic in 1918 was likely only about 2% with very little of the modern medical techniques used today.

testing and contact tracing is vital I agree. If people won’t wear masks, how will they react to proper contact tracing and recommended or required quarantines. Cue the guys with guns outside of government offices

Remember when they talk about “treating “ the disease, they are treating symptoms not the virus. My hospital took in some of the first Americans to contract COVID in February, and they’ve been involved in several multicenter studies looking at how to treat the symptoms and the disease. Some small gains have been shown from limited data, and there is more experience with what the disease does to the body, but they’re still only treating or reducing duration of symptoms.

finally, I too do not understand how science is political. This would have been difficult for any leader to deal with, but ignoring or alienating the people that understand the disease best is criminal.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I wasn't comparing to other pandemics; my points were mainly about testing for this one, & the benefits that could help everyone.

I do think some headway is being made in attacking or weakening the virus. Do you follow the Medcram series on coronavirus on YT? I try to keep up on the salient points, but my Missus is addicted. She's got us (me) on every supplement they mention. I probably have the most expensive urine in town!

Doctor Mike Hansen is another with good informative videos on the topic.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

MASKS

 

[kinyonga]

@DocZ said..."Locking up the vulnerable will not stop everyone else dragging this back to them and many of them will die. If my kids go to school, they won’t see their grandparents"...my grandkids already don't see me....and I only SEE my son when he drops off groceries and we self distance for a few minutes when he does it to have a chat. I'm tired of being "locked up"...but there's not much choice.

And @DocZ said..."Remember when they talk about “treating “ the disease, they are treating symptoms not the virus"...that's all they can do until they learn enough about it to do more....along with the distancing, masks, hand washing, etc that slows it's spread. The world is in crisis and we still don't pay enough attention to that....so we're setting ourselves up for pandemics IMHO.

@AmandaS said... "It is terrible for all students"...so true...and kids in general. At a time in their lives when they should be learning at school and learning about life by living it socially they are stuck learning on line and not able to see their friends.

 

[AmandaS]

so true...and kids in general. At a time in their lives when they should be learning at school and learning about life by living it socially they are stuck learning on line and not able to see their friends

Absolutely. I agree. My neice starts kindergarten this (well she is supposed to). What a sad year!!

 

[NashansCamos]

Absolutely. I agree. My neice starts kindergarten this (well she is supposed to). What a sad year!!

Luckily here in england I'm starting up school normally. Also all of my sports are now contact again

 

[DocZ]

Luckily here in england I'm starting up school normally. Also all of my sports are now contact again

You are lucky to be there right now

 

[snitz427]

Guys... dont get this thread locked until I finish my chameleon mask - I’m working really hard on it!

This year has been tragic all around. Every one is affected, and suffering in their own way. Hopefully we can get past this soon, as the economic fall out is up next. I hope you’re all well, and continue to be.

 

[kinyonga]

Really? Someone is shutting it???

 

[snitz427]

Really? Someone is shutting it???

No no - I was half joking... but the direct politics /name dropping will get it shut down. I learned this lesson by posting a silly political meme and name (that I didnt think was offensive to either party) and got a polite “talkin to.”

 

[salty dog]

Uugghhh....