Help needed for baby male veiled

[scottzilla]

Hello,
I am new to the group and chose this particular group after reading several posts and feel I can get the most reliable answers here. This is kind of a long story...I purchased a baby veiled male cham two days ago from the feed store I bought my supplies and bugs from (I already own a female veiled, she is approx. 1 year old now). The feed store is in the process of going out of business and sold me the male and full set up for a very what I consider cheap price. we were told that the male is 4 months old. I am not so sure. I measured him and he is a little more than 2.5 inches long without tail. When we purchased our female from another pet store a year ago, we were told she was 4 weeks old but she was at least an inch bigger than this little guy. I cannot find anything on the web to be able to guage his size. This is not my biggest problem however. Since we brought him home, he hasn't eaten. He is drinking like crazy (which is good) but I am worried. Every time we introduce pinheads, he almost seems afraid of them. He appears to sleep way more than normal and at times seems weak. He is pretty social and hasn't shown signs of stress. Certainly nothing like my female does. How long should it be before I am extremely concerned. Would he starve himself from being stressed? Again, he is drinking fine but not interested in the baby crickets.

 

[azn567]

It sounds to me like the male you just got was at the proper age based on the size of 2.5 " snout to vent length, and a female that is 3.5 inches snout to vent length can in no way be only a month old. Either the pet store you got the female at had no clue about the growth rate of chameleons and/or had never bred them before, or they knew and lied in order to make one think that she was large for her age, and therefore healthy. Your female was probably 4-5 months or older at the time of purchase, which would make her actual age over a year now. If you can find pictures of veiled chameleons hatching fresh out of the egg online, you can see how small they start off. Sleeping is not a good sign if it is during the day.

 

[Cait0420]

Hi and welcome to the forums! Was the pet store feeding him pinheads? Perhaps he's more used to fruit flies? Or some other feeder?

 

[deathdealer91]

Well lets see, if u got him a few days ago then he might take some time to get used to his new home. also if u could fill this out it would help:

·Chameleon Info: Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
·Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
·Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
·Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
·Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinkin?
· Fecal Description - Brieflynote colors and consistency from recent droppings.
·Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
·History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

·Cage Info: Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?)
·What are the dimensions?
· Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
· Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
· Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
· Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
· Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
· Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[scottzilla]

It seems they were feeding him crickets (some were a bit too big for him) and some roaches that I was unfamiliar with. They are red and black in color, not Dubia. I am hoping it's just that he's getting used to his new environment. Any other feedback is welcome.

 

[scottzilla]

Also, he came with and had been living in a screen type enclosure that is 24" wide by 48" tall by 24" deep. This seems somewhat big for such a small juvenile, so I put him in the beginner exoterra that I had my female in when she was a juvenile. My female is enjoying her new diggs as I have put her in the much larger cage that the male came in.

 

[Devokid]

The sleeping is bad and I also find the drinking a little strange. I never saw my veiled drink. Not even once. Those two things combined make me a little concerned. Is there a good vet nearby that you could take him to to get checked out? Others on here know more about Veileds than I do, but it seems odd to me.

 

[sharp229]

Hi scottzilla,

I know the store and chameleons you are referring to, I have been getting most of my feeders from them up till now since they have much better prices than standard pet stores.

Although their cage was better than the average pet store, I don't think they had much specialized knowledge of chameleons and the cage had some issues.

The three biggest problems I saw with the cage were that it used a fountain and fogger for watering, the UVB light was much too far away from the chameleons, and there was not near enough foliage for them to hide in which probably stressed them.

If the store never misted and always depended on the fogger and fountain for water (which seems likely) that may be why he is so thirsty. I would make sure he is misted at least three times a day with plenty of water on leaves for him to drink. I would also make sure he is able to get within 7" of a ReptiSun 5.0 UVB tube and make sure he has plenty of foliage to hide in.

Also make sure his cage dries completely between mistings and that there are no fountains which can build up bacteria.

It may take him a few days to adjust to the new environment before he starts eating. Just make sure to feed him food that is not wider than his head.

 

[junglefries]

Whatever you feed him, make sure no bigger than width between his eyes or thereabout. Look for little poops in the cage, then you will know he is eating. Generally, veils are a little shy about eating and drinking in front of people. Don't worry, after several months he will eat the minute you put food in his cage.

 

[scottzilla]

Thanks Sharp--
Kinda funny that someone here knows the particular pet store in question. I have removed the fountain from the cage first thing when I got it home (I wasn't sure why he put it in there in the first place as I had been reading the forums here for quite some time and know how bad they can be) and have added my 1 year old female veiled to it. She seems to have adjusted well so far. She is taking food and seems to explore a bit. Will be adding more foliage today. The baby male is in one of the cages we had when the female was a baby. Much less chance of him getting hurt if he were to somehow fall. I appreciate your feedback and will adjust accordingly. I will post again when the little guy shows signs of improvement. He seems to drink every time I mist him, but I haven't seen him eat. the crickets that are in his cage are smaller than his head so I know they aren't too big. I am hopeful that when I get home from work today that he has started to eat. BTW, since that was the only feed store that had such a nice variety of insects and worms near me, do you know of any others that compare?

Thanks again,
Scott

 

[sharp229]

Hi Scott,

It sounds like you have the situation under control. I would just pay close attention to the male for a few weeks to ensure he has no signs of RI such as head tilted up constantly, popping sounds, gaping, bubbles, swallowing, difficulty breathing, etc. If the store owner cleaned that fountain daily this will most likely not be a problem but the longer it goes without cleaning the higher the chance of RI if he actually drank from it.

By the way, the Lowes right down the road from that shop has very large scheffleras for under $20 which is a very good deal for the size and they work perfectly with a 4' enclosure.

I found out about that store from my vet, and don't personally know of others yet. Its too bad its closing because it was great for food and only a couple miles from my house (I am in Everett). The staff at the store told me that the next best alternative in the area was this place in Greenwood:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/little-amazon-fish-and-pets-seattle

I haven't been there yet though so I have no idea how good it is. Since I am planning on breeding chameleons within the next several months I am going to need to breed a lot of my own feeders so I was thinking of just doing that and then getting more exotic stuff online occassionally.

 

[scottzilla]

seems to have taken a turn for the worse

This morning when my fiance` and I woke up and checked on the little guy, he was very lathargic. He was clung to some foliage and it didn't take much effort to get him out. Since he seemed dehydrated since we brought him home just a few days ago and we haven't actually seen him eat, (he hasn't seemed to lose any weight, just seemed to be constantly thirsty) we decided to try and grind up some meal worms and try to feed him with a syringe. He only took very little, less than a small raindrop and then seemed to almost die in my hand. Very clumsy walking, even falling over on his side and just giving us the feeling that he had given up. We put a small washcloth in his enclosure and left him there hoping he will somehow miraculously recover, but I feel it is too late. Since we had to both leave for work we both said our very tearful goodbyes to "Raj". Since I've been at work this morning, My fiance` was able to find the number of a herpetologist vet not too far away from us. If Raj is still alive when I get home, I will take him there!! Wish us luck, however I fear it is too late.

 

[scottzilla]

I will most likely turn to this forum with questions pertaining to how this might have happened. I suspect he was sick when we bought him and think the guy that sold him to us just didn't care for him while he was closing down his store.

 

[scottzilla]

ok...after looking through some of the pics posted here of young veilds, Raj seems to have very bulging eyes...way more than normal. Is this a sign of what could be killing him?? I will try to post pics when I get home from work today. I don't remember my 1 year old female having such protruding eyes when she was this small.

 

[sharp229]

Sorry he has taken a turn for the worse. Pics would definitely help. Bulging eyes could be an infection, but pictures would be needed to tell for sure.

Could you post the full details of your current setup as listed in the how to ask for help form? Does he have any respiratory infection symptoms such as popping sounds, holding head up, extra mucous, bubbles?

There is a vet clinic in Bothell called the Center for Bird and Exotic Animals that you could try. For the most part they seem very knowledgeable and my biggest complaint would be that they seem to overcharge for things in certain cases.

 

[scottzilla]

Yeah, Luckily he was still alive and that's where I took him...looks as if he had this condition before i brought him home...almost 3 bills later, I have 4 meds and some specialized food I'll be administering for a while. I was relieved to see him still alive when I got home, but sad that I didn't research his bulging eyes sooner and didn't realize that he was already suffering. Hopefully he gets better and I will have rescued this cute little guy from a bad situation. I will try to post pics soon.

 

[sharp229]

I am curious what they diagnosed him with? Definitely do keep us updated, and pictures/filling out the form would help people identify any issues that might not have been caught.

Glad you have been able to give him such a great home!

 

[scottzilla]

RIP Raj

So even after vet treatment and meds, Raj did not survive overnight. We are very saddened by this and really disappointed in the way he was represented to us when purchasing. He obviously had issues when we bought him with his bulging eyes and lethargy. The vet primarily diagnosed him with vit. A deficiency or possible infection. He was too small to get a decent blood sample but they were able to get a drop of blood from him and are analyzing currently. I was unable to provide a stool sample as he hadn't defecated at all in the 4 days we had him. I gave particulars to vet on current husbandry as well as what he was in when we bought him. I was told that all was well planned out and his new home was not a factor in his condition, in fact they believe he was probably relieved to be in a better environment than what he was in living at the pet store. There were many issues with his living arrangements in the pet store which we immediately corrected once he was in our possession. They believe he had this condition when we purchased even though the proprietor assured me he was healthy. I feel somewhat cheated...I wish I could have provided photos of him here as a healthy young veiled chameleon but just couldn't find it in me to post photos of a sickly little guy. Once we realized he had health issues, we kinda knew his prognosis but hoped he would recover. I find comfort in knowing that he didn't die unloved at the pet store. Many lessons learned with this experience. I will be watching my 1yr. old female much more closely in hopes nothing was contracted from Raj. RIP Raj, you were very much loved in the short time you were with us. You will be missed.

 

[MelissaB]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you can take comfort in the knowledge that you gave him a better home for his final days. Poor little guy.

 

[zsazsa85]

I'm so sorry about Raj! Such a short life, but loved for sure! Take my honest condolences!