How do Veilds identify sex of other chams?

D

DocFox

New Member
This is probably a silly question- but how do veilds know the gender of other chams? Is it through sight, or smell, or posture... or...?

And while we're asking silly questions- you know that hand gesture where they bring up the front foot like in prayer? What does that mean?
 
Holding one hand under the chin is part of the aggressive behavior.

Do you mean do veileds know the gender of other veileds or other species of chameleon?
 
I mean knowing the gender of other veileds. I know the Casque is much taller in adult males, which would be an obvious visual cue, but I couldn't find any info anywhere that really states how they make a gender recognition- whether it's visual, posture, or smell.
 
This is not based on research: Sometimes a female's coloration or gestures will send a clear signal to stay away. Other times the males will just bum rush whatever chameleon they see and if it acts like a girl that is ready to breed then it MUST be a girl that is ready to breed. I don't think they "know" anything. At least not until the deed is underway.

I think males have like an instinctive checklist when they see any cham male or female. They don't 'know' anything, they just try to interact forcefully and see what happens:

1) I don't know why but I must puff up and dance in this thing's face = chameleon of the same species sex undetermined

2) It jumped off the branch and is curled up in a ball, wimp = juvenile

3) It is copying me, damn it, I must kill it = male

4) It is showing its teeth and shaking back and forth, not very attractive colors but I will still harass it and see what happens = unreceptive female

5) It is just watching me, it likes my moves = probably receptive probably female

6) Wow this feels good = definitely receptive female

7) Hey it is walking away from me, must...dance...again... = female done mating

Imagine you are at a dance club called The Chameleon, just relaxing and suddenly a drunk guy with really bad vision wearing a full jumpsuit with glow in the dark polka dots and stripes and a 4 foot high afro or mohawk makes eye contact with you from ALL the way across the club and starts doing cheezy dance moves toward you, pointing at you, getting closer and closer and closer and closer, doing that move where he throws the imaginary lasso or fishing line and reels you in until he is an inch away from your face and flexing his muscles. This is chameleon reality and suddenly you must decide:

Are you a dude also? Do you run away or hit him with a bottle? Better yet, do you clear a circle on the dance floor take off your jacket to reveal your ultra tight spandex Ed Hardy shirt and get into a dance / flex -off with him? (That's what the real chameleon studs do).

Are you a girl? Do you run away? Do you slap him in the face? Do you calm down and check out his rad moves? Now he won't stop freaking dancing and flexing and looking at you. What do you do now!!!?? All your friends are suddenly gone!!

You have just experienced the wonderful romantic world of chameleons.

NOW, one last thing, imagine all that but you are locked in a tiny cage:eek:
 
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I don't know if anyone knows for sure but I bet visual has a lot to do with it. The casque is smaller and the pattern of a female is very different from the pattern of a male. And the females will flash receptive colors or "stay away" colors as cues. Probably some pheromones too.
 
Seeco said:
Are you a dude also? Do you run away or hit him with a bottle? Better yet, do you clear a circle on the dance floor take off your jacket to reveal your ultra tight spandex Ed Hardy shirt and get into a dance / flex -off with him? (That's what the real chameleon studs do).

Are you a girl? Do you run away? Do you slap him in the face? Do you calm down and check out his rad moves? Now he won't stop freaking dancing and flexing and looking at you. What do you do now!!!?? All your friends are suddenly gone!!
Click to expand...

Oh yea, I just went right back to this, mentally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE&list=FL2nCZn5ko1sxQUOhV1NFDIw&index=9

I'm also sort of concerned about the level of detail in what Seeco imagines goes on at bars or night clubs lol Sheds light into a part of his life that concerns me.

In all seriousness, visual cues are a huge thing in mating, in most animals. Especially since the female has all the power when it comes to sexual selection, it's mostly based on the appearance of the male. She's seeing differences in between two males in things like size, color, health, complexity of display. For him, I can guarantee you that he is totally wired to recognize what a female looks like. And like Ferret said, there are a lot of scent cues that even humans pick up although we're not aware of them.

After all, we are acutely aware of who around us is male and female, and it goes beyond just what we're conditioned to expect (dress or long hair vs. beard and muscular arms, as an example). In tests where neutral gray figures are used but given different body proportions, such as wider shoulders or a wider pelvis, we instantly pick out which ones are female or male, and which proportion is most attractive to each gender. We're hardwired to breed, we and other animals know exactly how to recognize a possible mate quickly and take advantage of it.
 
Seeco said:
This is not based on research: Sometimes a female's coloration or gestures will send a clear signal to stay away. Other times the males will just bum rush whatever chameleon they see and if it acts like a girl that is ready to breed then it MUST be a girl that is ready to breed. I don't think they "know" anything. At least not until the deed is underway.

I think males have like an instinctive checklist when they see any cham male or female. They don't 'know' anything, they just try to interact forcefully and see what happens:

1) I don't know why but I must puff up and dance in this thing's face = chameleon of the same species sex undetermined

2) It jumped off the branch and is curled up in a ball, wimp = juvenile

3) It is copying me, damn it, I must kill it = male

4) It is showing its teeth and shaking back and forth, not very attractive colors but I will still harass it and see what happens = unreceptive female

5) It is just watching me, it likes my moves = probably receptive probably female

6) Wow this feels good = definitely receptive female

7) Hey it is walking away from me, must...dance...again... = female done mating

Imagine you are at a dance club called The Chameleon, just relaxing and suddenly a drunk guy with really bad vision wearing a full jumpsuit with glow in the dark polka dots and stripes and a 4 foot high afro or mohawk makes eye contact with you from ALL the way across the club and starts doing cheezy dance moves toward you, pointing at you, getting closer and closer and closer and closer, doing that move where he throws the imaginary lasso or fishing line and reels you in until he is an inch away from your face and flexing his muscles. This is chameleon reality and suddenly you must decide:

Are you a dude also? Do you run away or hit him with a bottle? Better yet, do you clear a circle on the dance floor take off your jacket to reveal your ultra tight spandex Ed Hardy shirt and get into a dance / flex -off with him? (That's what the real chameleon studs do).

Are you a girl? Do you run away? Do you slap him in the face? Do you calm down and check out his rad moves? Now he won't stop freaking dancing and flexing and looking at you. What do you do now!!!?? All your friends are suddenly gone!!

You have just experienced the wonderful romantic world of chameleons.

NOW, one last thing, imagine all that but you are locked in a tiny cage:eek:
Click to expand...

This just made me laugh out loud. in the middle of my office. it made people stare at me. hilarious!
 
I don't know how they can tell but I've always said that Luie could sex Melleri for their keepers. :) He has always like all the girls reguardless of the species.
 
It might be my imagination but I think this thread is exactly what chameleonforums.com is all about.........sticky it? lol
Chameleons can tell the sex of each other in many different ways, but like all of us it's mostly sight when you get down to it........ amateurs might make mistakes though I suppose..........Chameleons don't have sound to go on.....that's always a dead give away for me.....
 
Seeco said:
Imagine you are at a dance club called The Chameleon, just relaxing and suddenly a drunk guy with really bad vision wearing a full jumpsuit with glow in the dark polka dots and stripes and a 4 foot high afro or mohawk makes eye contact with you from ALL the way across the club and starts doing cheezy dance moves toward you, pointing at you, getting closer and closer and closer and closer, doing that move where he throws the imaginary lasso or fishing line and reels you in until he is an inch away from your face and flexing his muscles. This is chameleon reality and suddenly you must decide:

Are you a dude also? Do you run away or hit him with a bottle? Better yet, do you clear a circle on the dance floor take off your jacket to reveal your ultra tight spandex Ed Hardy shirt and get into a dance / flex -off with him? (That's what the real chameleon studs do).

Are you a girl? Do you run away? Do you slap him in the face? Do you calm down and check out his rad moves? Now he won't stop freaking dancing and flexing and looking at you. What do you do now!!!?? All your friends are suddenly gone!!

You have just experienced the wonderful romantic world of chameleons.

NOW, one last thing, imagine all that but you are locked in a tiny cage:eek:
Click to expand...

lmaoooooooooooo
<~~ Flatline............. dead!!
 
JonRich said:
I take it you don't live in NYC?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Lol No, I don't, but I know what you mean. I've been to Walmarts as well! But except for a select few, we pick up stuff like the ratio of waist to hips and label that person man or woman before we're even conscious of it. It's interesting. I bet you chameleons are doing the same thing, except going off casque size and color.
 
DocFox said:
And while we're asking silly questions- you know that hand gesture where they bring up the front foot like in prayer? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

Oh you mean "Walk Like an Egyptian" or in this case "Walk Like a Yemeni".
 
Olimpia said:
In all seriousness, visual cues are a huge thing in mating, in most animals. Especially since the female has all the power when it comes to sexual selection, it's mostly based on the appearance of the male. She's seeing differences in between two males in things like size, color, health, complexity of display. For him, I can guarantee you that he is totally wired to recognize what a female looks like. And like Ferret said, there are a lot of scent cues that even humans pick up although we're not aware of them.

After all, we are acutely aware of who around us is male and female, and it goes beyond just what we're conditioned to expect (dress or long hair vs. beard and muscular arms, as an example). In tests where neutral gray figures are used but given different body proportions, such as wider shoulders or a wider pelvis, we instantly pick out which ones are female or male, and which proportion is most attractive to each gender. We're hardwired to breed, we and other animals know exactly how to recognize a possible mate quickly and take advantage of it.
Click to expand...


You know I bet a lot of this comes into play in the wild but not as much in captivity. If a male sees a female in a far away tree he needs to be very sure it is the right species and sex before he goes for a journey to get there. When you just slip a female into his cage it is a much different WTF type scenario and that is where my checklist works.
 
its through a pheromone released by female chameleons, only birds and reptiles can smell it. When a female sees another chameleon, they will release the scent, if they dont detect a pheromone other than their own, they know its a male, vice versa. of course, if the female detects that its a male, she will judge him by look of his casque and visual patterns, aparently the females like dotted patterns most
 
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