Panther Locale I.D. Please
- Thread starter Todnedo
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You don't have to believe me. Anyone that was around in the cham world in the 2004 era would have seen it with their own eyes, and knows already that I produced Tams and Maros (and you couldn't have forgotten Loki Sambavas LOL). Again, nothing to prove here
I never claimed to know what it was for sure, so it is what it is.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
In all candor, since you asked, the most experienced folks that I know in this business know that absolutes are few with color on these critters, just tendencies that become more indicative as a male matures. Throw in the possibility that any given juvenile (or adult) can be of mixed locale, and what we know from all of our own meticulous experience is that it is reckless to be definitive with such a juvenile. Patience is not a product of a lack of knowledge and experience, but rather of the wisdom that comes with knowledge and experience. Experience will tell you that this is all a very inexact science, and as I said "the more you know, the more you know that you don't know". Braggadocio, on the other hand, will have you thinking you know it all.
reyesjoshuacruz
Established Member
Jim!!!!!!! Tisk tisk
I said yes or no! well said, thanks jim,
really i was curious. I give chris credit because he is the only one stating he has made it a point to study traits, and i tend to believe him.
Neither you, nor tyler, have stated whether or not you have done so as well. ( so i had no way of knowing if credit in that area should be given )
tyler, if thats how you are with your friends, i feel bad for your enemies...lol but if you truly are friends i think that says a lot about being able to be upfront and honest.
cheers all
I said yes or no!
well said, thanks jim,really i was curious. I give chris credit because he is the only one stating he has made it a point to study traits, and i tend to believe him.
Neither you, nor tyler, have stated whether or not you have done so as well. ( so i had no way of knowing if credit in that area should be given )
tyler, if thats how you are with your friends, i feel bad for your enemies...lol but if you truly are friends i think that says a lot about being able to be upfront and honest.
cheers all
westcoastchameleons
New Member
Should be a battle to the death call of duty style imo
oooooo I like this. Gold Cross 55 on PS3 GODSxSON.
-Jake
westcoastchameleons
New Member
AncientCritters
Established Member
You don't have to believe me. Anyone that was around in the cham world in the 2004 era would have seen it with their own eyes, and knows already that I produced Tams and Maros (and you couldn't have forgotten Loki Sambavas LOL). Again, nothing to prove here
I never claimed to know what it was for sure, so it is what it is.
About 7 years ago I got a male and a couple female WC tamataves. I got 1 fertile clutch and lost my male soon after that. Sometime later (1-2 years i dont exactly remember) I bought cb Tams from Bluebeast. I hatched 3 different clutches then. I myself no longer have Tamataves nor do I have any idea what happened to the many babies that went out. I remember asking Jim last year where I can find some. I recall being able to only find tams years ago and and nothing else when I had the money to buy. Its funny how it changed and is the oppisite way around now.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
I have a minute ....
... to better explain how the export dynamics changed. With the original quota system, from about 1998 until 2002, a small few controlled all the quotas, one exporter being the son of the Director of Water and Forests (or some such title, basically like our Fish and Wildlife, only very third-world). Corruption was rampant. These few controlled the export market, and there wasn't much you could do about it ... deal with them or deal with nobody. Pay in advance, send a wish list, and then unpack a box of 100 St. Maries, or 100 Tamatave, or other east coast Mada stuff (Sambavas and Maro's) because they were the easiest for them to collect. No money back if you weren't happy. Some better stuff got out in small quantities, but only because someone else in Mada paid dearly for that morsel of quota to export.
Then came the new elected government in 2002, which made some big strides in reducing corruption. They split that quota up about 40 ways. Now there was competition among exporters. If one couldn't insure you got Ambilobes, etc, another would gladly step up, for a price of course. And it made no sense for an exporter to only make $50 a head on Tamataves when they could get twice that, or more, sending Ambilobes etc. So now a situation existed, and it still exists, where for lack of a better way to put it (sorry Tamatave lovers), the cheap stuff isn't coming out of Mada, although a trickle has begun again. It won't last because the demand isn't there for East Coast Mada stuff. Supply and demand will continure to drive all major aspects of the market.
As I have said in other threads, color variations by locale have to be viewed as a bell-curve. The middle of that curve is shaped by what is most seen from that locale, combined with what is most expected, sometimes driven more by pictures of studs than reality. On the fringes of the bell curve are geopraphic fringe color variations and less stellar animals. To say one is 100% certain with a juvie, when the nature of the beast is trends, not absolutism, and broad variations, not narrow definitions, might impress a newb, but not an old-timer. And this is without the pollution of locale-crosses, intentional or otherwise.
Chris, I do wish you well in pursuing east-coast stuff. Some real pretty animals from around there, and it is a shame that the market has pinched them out somewhat. Believe it or not, if someone asks me about getting some East'ies, or for info, I just might be saying "contact Chris at Clean Line".
... to better explain how the export dynamics changed. With the original quota system, from about 1998 until 2002, a small few controlled all the quotas, one exporter being the son of the Director of Water and Forests (or some such title, basically like our Fish and Wildlife, only very third-world). Corruption was rampant. These few controlled the export market, and there wasn't much you could do about it ... deal with them or deal with nobody. Pay in advance, send a wish list, and then unpack a box of 100 St. Maries, or 100 Tamatave, or other east coast Mada stuff (Sambavas and Maro's) because they were the easiest for them to collect. No money back if you weren't happy. Some better stuff got out in small quantities, but only because someone else in Mada paid dearly for that morsel of quota to export.
Then came the new elected government in 2002, which made some big strides in reducing corruption. They split that quota up about 40 ways. Now there was competition among exporters. If one couldn't insure you got Ambilobes, etc, another would gladly step up, for a price of course. And it made no sense for an exporter to only make $50 a head on Tamataves when they could get twice that, or more, sending Ambilobes etc. So now a situation existed, and it still exists, where for lack of a better way to put it (sorry Tamatave lovers), the cheap stuff isn't coming out of Mada, although a trickle has begun again. It won't last because the demand isn't there for East Coast Mada stuff. Supply and demand will continure to drive all major aspects of the market.
As I have said in other threads, color variations by locale have to be viewed as a bell-curve. The middle of that curve is shaped by what is most seen from that locale, combined with what is most expected, sometimes driven more by pictures of studs than reality. On the fringes of the bell curve are geopraphic fringe color variations and less stellar animals. To say one is 100% certain with a juvie, when the nature of the beast is trends, not absolutism, and broad variations, not narrow definitions, might impress a newb, but not an old-timer. And this is without the pollution of locale-crosses, intentional or otherwise.
Chris, I do wish you well in pursuing east-coast stuff. Some real pretty animals from around there, and it is a shame that the market has pinched them out somewhat. Believe it or not, if someone asks me about getting some East'ies, or for info, I just might be saying "contact Chris at Clean Line".
Everyone's my buddy, unless they've decided otherwise. I don't get mad. I seem to straighten out facts more and more lately, but it doesn't upset me. I have too many things making me happy to get upset, particularly about something chameleon-related anymore.
WestCoastChameleons said:
Yeah, you're my buddy too. Wait, didn't you tell me you were going to leave San Diego with a redfoot? I swore I took home just as many as I brought with me.... It's ok, you'll have another chance in Pomona LOL.
westcoastchameleons
New Member
Ah! No!
I e-mailed you about sulcatas, then you suggested red foots
I dont know, I think I'd rather be the proud father of a Sulcata.-Jake
AncientCritters
Established Member
Ah! No!
I e-mailed you about sulcatas, then you suggested red foots
-Jake
Just a warning. Sulcatas are monsters. Not just the size but the damage they can do to a yard with the digging and holes and poops that look and smell like you have a elephant in your yard. They scrapped all the stucco off my old house and constantly tried to walk through the screen door till there was no screen and a broken sliding glass door from seeing his reflection and trying to fight and ram it. All that was when he was about 7. Hes 14 now and has a lady to keep him occupied and a new house with a large pen so he cant destroy anything. Not trying to talk you out if it. I love sulcatas, and my hermanns and pancakes, russian and spotted turtles. But be warned..
PardalisGirl
Avid Member
Cough it up Todnedo.....
Cough up an answer to my earlier question Todnedo What is the deal with this Panther? What is it supposed to be? Do you own it? What do you think it is? You want to talk chameleons....so lets have it
Cough up an answer to my earlier question Todnedo
What is the deal with this Panther? What is it supposed to be? Do you own it? What do you think it is? You want to talk chameleons....so lets have it 
Veiled Guy
New Member
Well (cough cough) I was told it was 62% ambanja but Time will tell
Well I have been following this thread for alittle bit. But 62% Ambanja what the? And whats the other 38%? Now im really curious. lol
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Unfortunately, time will not tell. If the seller acknowledges that it has hybrid blood in it, you'll never know what it is by looking at it, only what it looks like.
If Todnedo is on the up and up here, I prefer Bud Lite Lime at the moment Chris. You can also box up your company and send 1/3rd to me, 1/3rd to Tyler, and 1/3rd to Catherine. Or make smaller slices of what is left of your pie, and send them to every poster, as a few others made logical posts. Thanks in advance. Do I need to quarantine your stuff ?
Veiled Guy
New Member
Wether it's wc, ch, cbb, or precision lab bred (or as chad calls it "BREAD") makes no difference in this case. Time will tell.[/QUOTE]
Are we talking about the precision reptile labs on kingsnake? is this where you picked the animal up from?
Are we talking about the precision reptile labs on kingsnake? is this where you picked the animal up from?
Todnedo
Avid Member
Are we talking about the precision reptile labs on kingsnake? is this where you picked the animal up from?[/QUOTE]
Hey that guy has the purest locales in the whole US market...he even said so
reyesjoshuacruz
Established Member
Hey that guy has the purest locales in the whole US market...he even said so
[/QUOTE]only the precision stuff get pep talks guys, duh....
i like how he had " a select few " of a certain locale.......for 6 months, lol
Veiled Guy
New Member
Hey that guy has the purest locales in the whole US market...he even said so
[/QUOTE]Geez im really sorry if thats who you got it from. That guy will sell you a Veiled as a pink panther if he could. Well lets not go there. lol
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