please help my sick Google!!

[google101]

I noticed last night that Google seem to have a bit less energy then he did, but I think its because I didnt get all of his boost in him the previous day. I did get some liquid calcium last night and did get some in him.
So at the moment I have altered his cage to better accomidate his poor mobility. Today Iam syringe feeding him, 1.75ml liquid calcium once a day mixed with his boost. The boost I have been giving him 3-4 times a day.
How much should I be giving him of the boost in one day?
Also I think he may have RI, he has been taking deep breaths thru his mouth. What should I be doing for that? Im gonna check out some RI fourms right after this.
We are on at least day 7-8 for no poop/or uirates. I have set him in a shallow bowl of warm water twice in the last week, but no poop..

I was also wondering about the splints made of straws for his arms? I did see a case where they did this, but have also read that this can be more harmful-any thoughts?

Anything else I can/should be doing?

I can also emial pics for you to see him. I cant attach to fourm =(

Thanks all!
Schavone

 

[sandrachameleon]

A week without a poop is not yet concerning. Dont stress about at that for now.

Is the chameleon able to move about at all without falling?
Does he drink on his own?
Sorry I must have missed it earlier - what exactly is the "Boost" that you are giving him? Am I right that you are force feeding because he stopped eating for a few days? A few days without eating is also not a big concern, especially if the animal was over-fed previously. Is it that he is trying to eat and failing to catch prey, or just not even trying?

The possible MBD and lack of "grip" would be the most concerning to me right now, I think. Did the vet mention anything about the bones or take xrays?
I have PMd you my email address and I'll post photos to this thread for you when I receive them.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Images of the OPs chameleon

 

[ChameleonMom]

Sorry to hear about your guys problems. When he breathes through his mouth are his breaths raspy and crackly sounding? If so, a suspected RI is possible and the Baytril will help clear this up. You may want to consider putting Google back on it - my little female veiled had a serious bout of pneumonia in August and the Baytril was highly effective in clearing it up. For a point of reference my girl was 75g and was on 0.2cc's once a day. I also had an infrared heat bulb on during the night to keep temps up during the night - who doesn't like heat when they're sick? (Otherwise heat bulbs/lights are a no-no at night). Also, Baytril is not good for kidney function so you must remember to keep your guy hydrated. If he won't drink on his own then a syringe filled with water dripped over his nose (with a lot of patience) and he will eventually drink! I do this regardless if I don't see my chams drink at least once a day. They can go without food for awhile but they can't go without water.

Upon viewing your pictures Google doesn't appear to have any double elbows (yet) but it is important that you get him the calcium he needs. Based on his appearance I don't think he's quite at the stage where he requires straw splints and they may just stress him out further and thats the last thing he needs. Obviously you have been talking to some more experienced members here so I won't add anything to that, except to wish you good luck. I hope Google responds to treatment soon! Fingers crossed!

 

[HolyToledo]

if you look at the pic of him being held, the right upper arm looks like twister's after it had broken. back legs look pretty good in these pics but stick with the liquid ca unless at all possible to get the shots. they recover much quicker with the shots which means less suffering for them and you.

 

[sandrachameleon]

more photos of Google (sorry - had to dash before I finished uploading them all)

 

[sandrachameleon]

Ive seen animals in much worse shape.
I do not think straw splints is a good idea
I do think modifying the cage for the time being until he is stronger and gets about easier / wont fall is a good plan.
I wait for my previous questions to be answered before I say more

 

[google101]

I have modified his cage, and did get him to see an experienced vet. He has also developed a RI. So now we had to go back to the Baytril 5units a day, .1ml liq calcium a day, and we also got a complete neutient assisted feeding CarnivorCare powder that 2-3ml a day. He is howevr not eating today. And some 10-15min water soaks to be sure he stay hydrated with his heat up a bit.
he can not hold himself up on a branch, he falls. He can move a bit when he his lying flat.
He does not drink on his own.
He was just not evern interested in eating. I had been force feeding Repta-boost(via first vet) Not force feeding with the new stuff just offering, but he is not interested.
He pretty much cant do anything on his own now. today was the 2nd day with the new Vets orders(saw vet yesterday, no x-rays, She does think it MBD, RI, and isnt fully hydrated.) He seems to be worse as far as strength and movment, just lied around all day today. I tried to leave him be as much as poss today, only took him out 2x today, to give him his meds, offer food, and to soak.
Still staying positive as we can, it was rough today, that he seems less everything today =(

A week without a poop is not yet concerning. Dont stress about at that for now.

Is the chameleon able to move about at all without falling?
Does he drink on his own?
Sorry I must have missed it earlier - what exactly is the "Boost" that you are giving him? Am I right that you are force feeding because he stopped eating for a few days? A few days without eating is also not a big concern, especially if the animal was over-fed previously. Is it that he is trying to eat and failing to catch prey, or just not even trying?

The possible MBD and lack of "grip" would be the most concerning to me right now, I think. Did the vet mention anything about the bones or take xrays?
I have PMd you my email address and I'll post photos to this thread for you when I receive them.

 

[google101]

Thanks for posting mthese for me =)

View attachment 68873
View attachment 68874
View attachment 68875

 

[sandrachameleon]

I didnt know respiratory troubles cause mobility issues like that? or did the vet provide any advice about the mobility separate from the RI issue?

I wonder if the previous the force feeding (and getting the stuff in his airways) resulted in the RI? or has he had symptoms longer than that? I know you said the first vet didnt see any sign of RI, but Is this perhaps what the baytril was original prescribed for ?

Baytril is known to cause lack of appetite. luckily Your guy is not underfed - he's got fat to burn.

dont rely on Carnovore care for very long - its not formulated for insect eaters. I again suggest a home made bug juice for at least some of his meals.

good luck!

 

[ChameleonMom]

Positive thoughts and some good old tender loving care goes a long way with our chams so remember this when Google (and you) have a bad day. The things that are ailing him are not insurmountable - he can recover and continue to live his happy life with you! Sending you and Google all my best wishes for his complete recovery.

 

[google101]

I assume the mobility problems are from the MBD. She didn't say it was related to the RI. And for shame I think I caused the RI with the force feeding, he had no symptoms previously.

What all do I put in the bug juice?

Oh yeah, He did take a big poo, its been over a week. I Vhecked it out, it was pretty long and whinedy. about 1/4 was kinda dry looking. the rest was soft but solid. I could see bug parts, and had a little film. his urite was soft looking and a pale orangekinda filmy looking. It nwas also much bigger then normal.

He just laid around today, he is about 7in below his lights bout 90degrees, 70degree on the cooler side, how often should I move him back and froth? Not really drinking, but I have been misting and giving him 10 min soaks. What do you think about the shower thing?

His mouth is really gross looking too. Mouth rot?

=)
Schavone

I didnt know respiratory troubles cause mobility issues like that? or did the vet provide any advice about the mobility separate from the RI issue?

I wonder if the previous the force feeding (and getting the stuff in his airways) resulted in the RI? or has he had symptoms longer than that? I know you said the first vet didnt see any sign of RI, but Is this perhaps what the baytril was original prescribed for ?

Baytril is known to cause lack of appetite. luckily Your guy is not underfed - he's got fat to burn.

dont rely on Carnovore care for very long - its not formulated for insect eaters. I again suggest a home made bug juice for at least some of his meals.

good luck!

 

[google101]

I agree =)
Thank you !

Positive thoughts and some good old tender loving care goes a long way with our chams so remember this when Google (and you) have a bad day. The things that are ailing him are not insurmountable - he can recover and continue to live his happy life with you! Sending you and Google all my best wishes for his complete recovery.

 

[Lovereps]

I assume the mobility problems are from the MBD. She didn't say it was related to the RI. And for shame I think I caused the RI with the force feeding, he had no symptoms previously.

Not necessarily. MBD can also cause illness.
If you're still force feeding, be sure to put the food into the very back of his mouth. Their unique anatomy means that they will choke on things put in the front or middle of the mouth but not choke on things put in the back of the mouth.

What all do I put in the bug juice?

Originally Posted by laurie
If you need the homemade way to make food, make bug juice. Bug juice is easy and really good for your cham. Take a small blender add 4 oz of pedalite, 4 oz of ensure, some calcium, and a lot of well gut loaded feeders, I use crickets cause they blend best. Blend it until everything is liquid, strain it to get out legs and thinks that did not blend. Put it in a syringe and give it to your cham. i have kept extra in the frig for a max of 3 days. It makes more than you need but it doesn't blend well unless you have sufficient liquid.

His mouth is really gross looking too. Mouth rot?

Can't tell without a picture.
I hope the vet injected him with at least one of these 3 things; calcium, fluids or Baytril.
He definitely needs to be kept well hydrated while on Baytril.

Wishing you well.

 

[google101]

Im gonna try the bug juice, gonna gut load with darkgreens and carrotts-is that good?

Also so I cant post pics on fourm, but i can email them to you if that will work?

Thanks for the advise Lovereps =)

 

[google101]

Again very weak today, got his liq calcium and his baytril in him this am, but again didnt take any carnicare when offer. Just to a 15 min soak. though his eyes are still very sunken. gonna try the shower method this afternoon.

I noticed yesterday that his eyes looked very glazed, nothing dripping or oozing out, but this am his left eye was crusted shut. It popped open after a misting. but should I be worried about that too?

looking to make some homemade bug juice, wondering about throwing 2-3 wax worms in it, is this a good idea? I know that they are very fatty worms. Other wise Ill just do cricketts?

And he still isnt very moble, how often should he be back and forth between his warm and cool area? I know the heat is good for him, but dont want to toast him either-Suggestions?

 

[google101]

google has also been almost sleeping most of the day. Yesterday his eyes would be white and if i went to touch him they rolled back and he seemed suddenly aware. today his eyes are actually closing.
Super worried!!!!!

please help

 

[sandrachameleon]

Im sorry he's not doing well.
Make sure lots of water is getting into him. Make the bug juice with lots of water (and reduced ensure would be fine), or dilute the carnivore care. I think water is very important right now.

Yes, you can add larva to the bug juice, but your guy is already overweight so the extra fat is not really necessary. Id choose butterworms over waxworms. if you have roaches, use those with the crickets too if you want.

as for temp, how is his colour? do you have a temp gun? can you put him in a place that is a good all the time time instead of moving him around?

as for gutloading or what veg & fruit to add to the bug juice blender mix, consider things like dandelion leaves, romain lettuce, basil, papaya, alfalfa sprouts, spriulina, arugula...

if MBD is diagnosed, you need to give extra calcium and the quickest way to increase calcium to improve bone health in that case is to get a vet to give it injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough that it can then get a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium back into the bones
dont give up hope!

 

[Lovereps]

I wish I had all the answers for you.
Chams can be very tough to nurse back to health since their care requirements leave little room for error anyway.
My personal approach to treating a sick cham is to handle him only as much as is absolutely necessary and no more than that.
My assumption is that added handling = added stress =tougher recovery
In addition to usual basic needs, your cham's primary needs are hydration, medication and calcium.
Food can be given every other day to lessen the amount of handling, since he is overweight and chams can go much longer without food than without water.
The increased warmth does seem to aid recovery but he must be kept hydrated.
Without taking him from his cage, water can be dropped on the end of his mouth with a dropper, so he can drink more and not be handled.
Shower treatments may be essential for him right now but as mentioned I don't have all the answers.
Here is a good writeup on showering chams safely:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/732-shower-sessions-hydration.html
Giving too much food at one time is no good either, as you don't want to give more than his stomach can hold or more than he can reasonably swallow at one time.
Here is info on rehydrating a cham:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/454-dehydration-solutions-force-fluid-tips.html
Here is an excellent writeup about MBD, note that the author is a vet and a cham owner.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Pay close attention to advcie from people who have experience in successfully rehabilitating chameleons, such as Sandrachameleon .
As she just mentioned: "if MBD is diagnosed, you need to give extra calcium and the quickest way to improve increase calcium and bone health in that case is to get a vet to give it injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough that it can then get a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium back into the bones"

 

[google101]

Im sorry he's not doing well.
Make sure lots of water is getting into him. Make the bug juice with lots of water (and reduced ensure would be fine), or dilute the carnivore care. I think water is very important right now.

Yes, you can add larva to the bug juice, but your guy is already overweight so the extra fat is not really necessary. Id choose butterworms over waxworms. if you have roaches, use those with the crickets too if you want.

as for temp, how is his colour? do you have a temp gun? can you put him in a place that is a good all the time time instead of moving him around?

as for gutloading or what veg & fruit to add to the bug juice blender mix, consider things like dandelion leaves, romain lettuce, basil, papaya, alfalfa sprouts, spriulina, arugula...

if MBD is diagnosed, you need to give extra calcium and the quickest way to increase calcium to improve bone health in that case is to get a vet to give it injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough that it can then get a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium back into the bones
dont give up hope!

i just emailed you some pics of him today.