Veiled female MBD, possible constipation
- Thread starter Riven
- Start date
Rather than putting it in the sink why not have a large tupperware container that you fill with water and put the chameleon in? Then the water can be dumped down the toilet.
"Chlorine disinfection of the organism is ineffective, as it has been shown that even one oocyst can withstand pure bleach (50,000 ppm chlorine) for 24 hours and still cause an infection."...
"Oocysts, the dormant form of Crypto, are able to survive in bleach (50,000 ppm free chlorine) even after 24 hours (Huntoon 1993)"...
http://www.water-research.net/cryptosporidium.htm
"Long term exposure to"..."70 to 100% bleach was deemed necessary to completely eliminate infectivity"...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC184422/pdf/aem00086-0229.pdf
"Chlorine disinfection of the organism is ineffective, as it has been shown that even one oocyst can withstand pure bleach (50,000 ppm chlorine) for 24 hours and still cause an infection."...
"Oocysts, the dormant form of Crypto, are able to survive in bleach (50,000 ppm free chlorine) even after 24 hours (Huntoon 1993)"...
http://www.water-research.net/cryptosporidium.htm
"Long term exposure to"..."70 to 100% bleach was deemed necessary to completely eliminate infectivity"...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC184422/pdf/aem00086-0229.pdf
Last edited:
jman10350
New Member
I completely agree with David definetly up calcium and vitamins.. Her back legs are bowlegged meaning she has mbd..
Elizadolots
New Member
Sounds like you're making great progress. I don't necessarily agree that she'll get more cooperative as she gets hungry. She's probably never going to fully understand that you are trying to help her (she might, but I wouldn't plan for it). Have you tried giving her worms? While not a good staple, a couple of wax worms or butter worms will help with her over all hydration and as they are primarily fat, help get some calories into her. If it were me, I'd have some worms in the cup.
Riven, I have nothing to offer or add, as I'm a newbie at cham care myself. I'm so impressed though, with the lengths you've gone to try to save your little girl. I think many newbie's would have become overwhelmed and maybe thrown in the towel at this point.
It's so distressing to have a pet that is ill, but you seem to be someone who is so kind, caring and compassionate. I have no doubt that YOU were just what that cham needed (since it sounds like she was pretty far gone when you got her
)
I wish you the best of luck. Fingers crossed that all of your efforts pay off.
It's so distressing to have a pet that is ill, but you seem to be someone who is so kind, caring and compassionate. I have no doubt that YOU were just what that cham needed (since it sounds like she was pretty far gone when you got her
) I wish you the best of luck. Fingers crossed that all of your efforts pay off.
Thank you Junebug, I'm lucky to have found the help on here to help our journey. I raise chinchillas and they can be difficult at times from certain illnesses to hand feeding kits every 2 hours for weeks on end... I'm lucky to have worked so long with some great vets as well. Our main concern is her quality of life and getting her what she needs, I feel terrible we didn't double check everything we were told when we got her.
Does the tupperware have the same effect? I thought that she needed the running water sensation? I know that sensation of the moving water ( water therapy) can help greatly with healing and improvement of circulation. I was hoping that it would help get the calcium moving through her body and help improve her progress.
At this point her hind legs are better, but still not perfect of course, but I'm glad to see improvement. Her one front leg likes to remain under her, this morning I tried to do some PT with it and it did not want to move forward very far (basically not past a 90 degree point) I did not force it, just moved it to that point of resistance and will continue to do that as well unless I hear that it is unwise. I'm not forcing, just trying to reinforce the movements she has to the places they need to be, I do not want to cause her anymore injury or pain.
I am going to get some worms ordered as well, I'm hoping that we makes improvements on her tongue motions, I was glad to see the movement while she was drinking today.
Does the tupperware have the same effect? I thought that she needed the running water sensation? I know that sensation of the moving water ( water therapy) can help greatly with healing and improvement of circulation. I was hoping that it would help get the calcium moving through her body and help improve her progress.
At this point her hind legs are better, but still not perfect of course, but I'm glad to see improvement. Her one front leg likes to remain under her, this morning I tried to do some PT with it and it did not want to move forward very far (basically not past a 90 degree point) I did not force it, just moved it to that point of resistance and will continue to do that as well unless I hear that it is unwise. I'm not forcing, just trying to reinforce the movements she has to the places they need to be, I do not want to cause her anymore injury or pain.
I am going to get some worms ordered as well, I'm hoping that we makes improvements on her tongue motions, I was glad to see the movement while she was drinking today.
BocaJan
New Member
Having nutured an advanced veiled fella with MBD I have been reading your thead with interest. I thought I would pop in and add a thought or two. As Vinny's bones calcified and got stronger, he was able to walk and climb. I would not do PT on her legs because you can harm the soft bones and cause damage. My guy Vinny would gobble down food one day and spit it out another day so don't force it if yours decides to not eat one day. He had the best luck with big crickets coming in from the side of his mouth because he could get a better grasp on a bigger cricket. It seemed like he couldn't feel a small bug as well as a larger one. I guess it's trial and error. I gave him Reptaid as part of his daily treatment care. It is a natural "medicine" and my chams love it. Just a thought.
You are doing everything that I did with my Vinney. He was a little misshappen but did recover and was able to get around his cage quite well. I kept it filled with vines so he had sturdy places to climb and he lived out his life quite happily.
You are doing everything that I did with my Vinney. He was a little misshappen but did recover and was able to get around his cage quite well. I kept it filled with vines so he had sturdy places to climb and he lived out his life quite happily.
D
DavidBuchan
Guest
Does anyone have any thoughts on eating?
We're still force feeding and I mean that literally, and she's getting more avoidant when we try to feed her, today she actively rejected the cricket and tried to get away...
I think you can take this as a good sign. A struggler is not planning on lying down to die anytime soon.......I also got to say well done for all your efforts and progress so far, try not to worry too much about her tongue working, it may or may not, why add that worry? As Elizadolots mentioned, worms will make her eat if anything will. Did you get any Calciworms/Phoenix worms? Mealworms are not as good but cheaper and it's an unusual Cham who won't eat a waxworm........
One day people might be able to use this thread as an inspirational story for others in this position.....
VEILED89
Member
as for her belly being so big u should feed her less n let her food digest
Elizadolots
New Member
Here's a link on reptaid: http://www.reptaid.com/ It can also be bought from some of the board sponsors, so maybe rolled into an order for worms to save on shipping.
BocaJan, thank you so much for posting. I can only imagine how heartening it is for Riven to read what you wrote.
BocaJan, thank you so much for posting. I can only imagine how heartening it is for Riven to read what you wrote.
I don't know that she has too much food in her belly, from what I've read on the average cham eating 10 crickets per day ( ?! ) and she's living off 1-2 meal worms or a small cricket per day if we can get it in her.
The tongue worries me because of the long term factor of her not being able to eat on her own ever again. I'd sure hate to put her through the pain of this ( as I'm sure this is painful ) only to have her starving later. If we can't get her to eat one a day now I can't imaging trying to force feed enough to keep a full grown cham alive...
Thanks for all of the suggestions and support. I have not ordered any calciworms yet, the local store was going to see if they could get them for me, I should know tomorrow morning when I'm in town.
The tongue worries me because of the long term factor of her not being able to eat on her own ever again. I'd sure hate to put her through the pain of this ( as I'm sure this is painful ) only to have her starving later. If we can't get her to eat one a day now I can't imaging trying to force feed enough to keep a full grown cham alive...
Thanks for all of the suggestions and support. I have not ordered any calciworms yet, the local store was going to see if they could get them for me, I should know tomorrow morning when I'm in town.
Elizadolots
New Member
She doesn't need to use her tongue to survive, though that's obviously the ideal "chameleon" thing. There have been many stories here of chameleons who've lost their tongues due to accident or injury/surgery and they have adapted to it quite well.
My veiled injured his tongue so it would only shoot crooked. He could never catch anything and stopped using it pretty much all together. He eats out of a cup now and doesn't miss a single cricket! He just reaches down and bites them like an iguana would eat. He does really well even though he doesn't use his tongue. He maintains his weight solidly and has a happy life. And Hoj has a veiled that bit off his tongue so he doesn't even have it and he's still going strong a year later! Camo has to be handfed but he's doing really well with it. It just takes a little time to feed him. If there is food in a way she can get it she will make it work!
Last night was a long time, I have some health issues that sometimes flair up ( build up is probably more the right term ) so I ended up at class, then back home, slept for a while, did homework, then realized crap, Hailey's asleep and Pascal hasn't eaten yet! I open, she puts the food in, I can't see anyway I could do it myself, I've tried, lol. She was extremely stressed the last time we feed her ( Monday ) so I gave her a break on Tuesday on the feeding and such and just did the meds. She was THIRSTY, I've been using a 5 mL syringe to drip the water, and I know that she didn't drink every drop, I missed some, she slobbered some, etc. But I filled the syringe three times! So even if she got a 1/4 of that in it's quite a bit! Then the most wonderful thing I've seen since this all started happened... she eyed the worms I dropped in her little dish... she licked her lips... did her little "chomping" bit she does she shot and she missed. But... again out came her tongue, very slowly and deliberate, and she grabbed a worm! Unfortunately she wasn't able to get all of the motions to get it in and down and it fell out. By then I don't know if she was too tired or frustrated but she lost interest. The watering and worm deal took 40 minutes... and today she didn't seem interested, but there was a lot more movement in the house as it wasn't midnight with everyone else sleeping.
Today we feed 3 mealies, she kind of tried to reject the first but I repositioned it, she got it down and thought about it a bit and we got two more in her, she took these much more easily than the first. I showered her hoping for some poo, but no luck on that, she's outside enjoying the warmest part of our day today.
She seems stronger and feels more "solid", like less flimsy, so hopefully that's her muscles and bones strengthening back up.
Just wanted to update, I know there are several people watching and reading, the rest of the week I'm off during the days so she'll be able to get plenty of sun, unfortunately for her it's to the point where it doesn't actually warm up until noon or later.... and is running mid 40's in the mornings.
But... again out came her tongue, very slowly and deliberate, and she grabbed a worm! Unfortunately she wasn't able to get all of the motions to get it in and down and it fell out. By then I don't know if she was too tired or frustrated but she lost interest. The watering and worm deal took 40 minutes... and today she didn't seem interested, but there was a lot more movement in the house as it wasn't midnight with everyone else sleeping.Today we feed 3 mealies, she kind of tried to reject the first but I repositioned it, she got it down and thought about it a bit and we got two more in her, she took these much more easily than the first. I showered her hoping for some poo, but no luck on that, she's outside enjoying the warmest part of our day today.
She seems stronger and feels more "solid", like less flimsy, so hopefully that's her muscles and bones strengthening back up.
Just wanted to update, I know there are several people watching and reading, the rest of the week I'm off during the days so she'll be able to get plenty of sun, unfortunately for her it's to the point where it doesn't actually warm up until noon or later.... and is running mid 40's in the mornings.
D
DavidBuchan
Guest
Ok, we have real progress here Great news! Here's hoping for more of the same.........
Great news! Here's hoping for more of the same.........
Pilotman800
New Member
Ok, we have real progress here
Agreed!
Looks like its going well! It hasn't even been that long, either!
D
DavidBuchan
Guest
Dupontman2
New Member
I had a similar situation with the big belly on a female veiled, x-rays showed no eggs either. My vet had me give her 1cc of mineral oil and after 2 days the poop came! I continued the mineral oil for a week and my problem was solved. Now before I get jumped on, this in now way helps the MBD, but it might help with the big belly/impaction situation.
