Veiled female MBD, possible constipation
- Thread starter Riven
- Start date
Elizadolots
New Member
banshee1, it's a bad idea to just read the first post, particularly in a really long thread. This chameleon is getting extraordinary care.
I'll try to get some new mouth pics tomorrow. I'm very concerned about her lower lip... it's like swollen and "hard" or firm. Shouldn't the baytril be working by now some? Today she looks worse than yesterday, but she does seem to be using her tongue more while drinking, and ate plenty of "soup", probably about 2 mL in her as I had 4 mL and well half of it gets all over her, lol. I wipe her mouth good so it doesn't get irritated from the food being on there when we're done, she hates it worse than a 2 yr old!
Elizadolots
New Member
Again, that sort of "teeter totter" thing is common with recovery in my experience.
Eating more and using her tongue more is definitely good.
It's possible that the skin on the lip is going to come off as the healthier skin below it comes in. Sort of like how a major fingernail injury can get really ugly as the damaged tissue grows out.
Eating more and using her tongue more is definitely good.
It's possible that the skin on the lip is going to come off as the healthier skin below it comes in. Sort of like how a major fingernail injury can get really ugly as the damaged tissue grows out.
banshee1
New Member
Elizadolots
New Member
Has there been a diagnoses of mouth rot? I thought that was just a possibility along with "damaged because of force feeding".
Riven, are you seeing pus?
No pus, not "cottage cheese", no skin rubbing off with a q-tip... I don't know if it's damage, it continued to get worse after we stopped pulling, and it didn't start until 3 days after we last forced her mouth open.
She does have some ticking when she breathes, the bottom lip has gone from "sagging" to inflamed and firm. I'll get pics here pretty soon, maybe that will help.
ETA: I tried to get some pics with my phone, but they just don't turn out well for her, so I'm going to get the camera out to get some. I'll take her out for a shower later and do it then!
Also I've noticed the last couple days she's had some black spots on her gums, today they are worse, I don't know if this is due to the tissue being exposed perhaps?
She does have some ticking when she breathes, the bottom lip has gone from "sagging" to inflamed and firm. I'll get pics here pretty soon, maybe that will help.
ETA: I tried to get some pics with my phone, but they just don't turn out well for her, so I'm going to get the camera out to get some. I'll take her out for a shower later and do it then!
Also I've noticed the last couple days she's had some black spots on her gums, today they are worse, I don't know if this is due to the tissue being exposed perhaps?Okay, never did youtube working and just got angry so I took a break. I did upload it to my facebook and made it public so please let me know if you can see it. It shows her walking and improvement! Her favorite spot is on top of that pot, lol. She's mauled the plant, but I figure it helps make her feel more safe so whatever, we can get a new one. I tried to get a little footage of her mouth, my day is not going at all like I planned... The swelling in her bottom lip is reduced some, it's not as firm, and I can gently "move" it which I couldn't do before. I was hoping to see quicker improvement with the Baytril, it's not something I generally like to give long term, but maybe cham's handle it better?
http://www.facebook.com/nicole.galliano#!/nicole.galliano
Okay, it looks like you can, I wonder if I can move it from there to my youtube now? hmmm... lol
http://www.facebook.com/nicole.galliano#!/nicole.galliano
Okay, it looks like you can, I wonder if I can move it from there to my youtube now? hmmm... lol
Elizadolots
New Member
I wonder why youtube hates you?
She's really moving very well now, isn't she? I saw her gripping things (not herself) quite well. It's going to take some more time before she can really support herself, but she's definitely getting there. I'm so impressed.
I really think the lip is going to resolve itself on its own, just give it some time.
I don't remember, is that her real enclosure or someplace you moved her for her recovery? Because if that's her real enclosure, you're going to eventually want to give her some climbing structures. I know you don't want her to climb much now, but she clearly wants to and eventually, it will be okay for her.
She's really moving very well now, isn't she? I saw her gripping things (not herself) quite well. It's going to take some more time before she can really support herself, but she's definitely getting there. I'm so impressed.
I really think the lip is going to resolve itself on its own, just give it some time.
I don't remember, is that her real enclosure or someplace you moved her for her recovery? Because if that's her real enclosure, you're going to eventually want to give her some climbing structures. I know you don't want her to climb much now, but she clearly wants to and eventually, it will be okay for her.
That is her "baby enclosure" we planned on getting a new one actually right before she got sick! We have vines and stuff for her, but I took them all out when she got sick so she didn't get hurt, this is living it up... for a while all she got was a towel and fake plants on the wall! LOL
Her grip is SOOO strong! She grabbed onto my sweatshirt tonight, and I couldn't get her off! She's taught me a lot of patience...
She was really, really thinking about eating a butterworm tonight then my youngest came into the room and distracted her. She never used to be a shy eater, but now she is, she'll eat when I'm in there, but if there is stuff going on she won't. I think she probably feels vulnerable and goes into "flight" mode. Tomorrow when the girls are at school we'll try again. Tonight she opened her mouth really wide, much wider than usual, so I think that's a good sign! Tomorrow I'll probably make more bug soup though... not sure what the expiration date is on bug soup, but I've been doing like two days...
Thanks for all of the watchers and support, she's so amazing, so strong, and so determined. No matter what I've done without those traits we wouldn't be here, if she just gave up...
Her grip is SOOO strong! She grabbed onto my sweatshirt tonight, and I couldn't get her off! She's taught me a lot of patience...
She was really, really thinking about eating a butterworm tonight then my youngest came into the room and distracted her. She never used to be a shy eater, but now she is, she'll eat when I'm in there, but if there is stuff going on she won't. I think she probably feels vulnerable and goes into "flight" mode. Tomorrow when the girls are at school we'll try again. Tonight she opened her mouth really wide, much wider than usual, so I think that's a good sign! Tomorrow I'll probably make more bug soup though... not sure what the expiration date is on bug soup, but I've been doing like two days...
Thanks for all of the watchers and support, she's so amazing, so strong, and so determined. No matter what I've done without those traits we wouldn't be here, if she just gave up...
Elizadolots
New Member
That's all good.
Think about it, modesty is the first thing you give up when you feel awful and the thing that makes you feel whole again when you're getting better. (not to be too graphic, but when you were in labor in the hospital, wouldn't you have asked the janitor to check your dilation, just to get some information?)
Many chameleons will not eat if they know someone is watching, so her balking a bit when there's activity shows she's doing better.
She is a little life force, isn't she? She's really inspiring, but you and your family are too.
Think about it, modesty is the first thing you give up when you feel awful and the thing that makes you feel whole again when you're getting better. (not to be too graphic, but when you were in labor in the hospital, wouldn't you have asked the janitor to check your dilation, just to get some information?)
Many chameleons will not eat if they know someone is watching, so her balking a bit when there's activity shows she's doing better.
She is a little life force, isn't she? She's really inspiring, but you and your family are too.
This morning she watched the worms, not mouth action. I'm going to not feed her any soup until tonight, I'm going to try to get her to eat on her own first. She seems to want to.
I also took a swab and water and working on debriding her mouth on the outside where it is exposed, I did not mess with the inside, but next time she opens up I'll try to get a good look at it. Anyway, she must've face planted into her pot because she had dirt all over it, so I figured while I was cleaning it...
I got a little bit of build up, not tissue, and not granulation, but probably what was a build up of dead cells or mucous? It was clear in color for the most part. I also got some chunks of a yellowy, hard substance, it basically looked like pieces of popcorn hull, but not quite that big... I didn't over do it, just until her gums turned darker pink, should encourage healing by increasing the blood flow. Of course she was pretty angry after that. She wasn't thirsty this morning, but she just got up, so we'll try again a bit later and give her the Baytril then as well.
I also took a swab and water and working on debriding her mouth on the outside where it is exposed, I did not mess with the inside, but next time she opens up I'll try to get a good look at it. Anyway, she must've face planted into her pot because she had dirt all over it, so I figured while I was cleaning it...
I got a little bit of build up, not tissue, and not granulation, but probably what was a build up of dead cells or mucous? It was clear in color for the most part. I also got some chunks of a yellowy, hard substance, it basically looked like pieces of popcorn hull, but not quite that big... I didn't over do it, just until her gums turned darker pink, should encourage healing by increasing the blood flow. Of course she was pretty angry after that. She wasn't thirsty this morning, but she just got up, so we'll try again a bit later and give her the Baytril then as well.
I'm feeling like we're losing ground. She is moving much better than previous as evidenced by the video, but she's down to 22 grams and I couldn't hardly get anything in her yesterday and nothing this morning... I showered her this morning hoping it would make her feel better. Today I swabbed her mouth again, the swelling in her lip as gone down enough that I can move it back up, but it doesn't stay on it's own.
I'm mostly worried about how fast her weight is dropping. I haven't been able to get her to open her mouth any other way and her chin is still so tender, some of the dead tissue is starting to slough off around the edges and the tissue underneath looks good. I cleaned it today when I did her mouth, should I put anything on it?
She just doesn't seem as fiesty the last two days as she has been, paired with the dropped weight. I am going to so some subq fluids today, which she hates, but... I don't know what else to do.
ETA: Is lactated ringer's solution okay to use with chams? I figured it would help replace some electrolytes if so.
I'm mostly worried about how fast her weight is dropping. I haven't been able to get her to open her mouth any other way and her chin is still so tender, some of the dead tissue is starting to slough off around the edges and the tissue underneath looks good. I cleaned it today when I did her mouth, should I put anything on it?
She just doesn't seem as fiesty the last two days as she has been, paired with the dropped weight. I am going to so some subq fluids today, which she hates, but... I don't know what else to do.
ETA: Is lactated ringer's solution okay to use with chams? I figured it would help replace some electrolytes if so.
Replacing the water and elctrolytes is a very good idea. Sick reptiles often have high lactate so LRS may not be best since it has lactate in it already and we really don't know how well reptile even metabolize lactate to begin with. If you could get some Norm-R or 0.9% NaCl that would be a better fluid choice. That said, if you're not giving a ton of fluids very day I doubt that it alone is going to be enough to keep her from getting better. But it is something to consider...
I have NaCl too, I didn't know if it would help her since she's been sick and has had a questionable amount of vitamins and nutrition.
She still didn't want to eat at lunch... she took one "bite" because I dropped it into her "ledge" that is her lower lip. Give a little more fluids. Have the automatic drip set up for her to drink as much as she wants. She was really angry this morning when I went back in to work on that, and give her fluids... just the second she saw me she turned dark brown like NOW WHAT?!
I hope I can get some food into her, her weight loss is very alarming to me...
She still didn't want to eat at lunch... she took one "bite" because I dropped it into her "ledge" that is her lower lip. Give a little more fluids. Have the automatic drip set up for her to drink as much as she wants. She was really angry this morning when I went back in to work on that, and give her fluids... just the second she saw me she turned dark brown like NOW WHAT?!
I hope I can get some food into her, her weight loss is very alarming to me...
Would it help to supplement her with Dyne? I didn't know if this would help her get her energy level up to the point where she would eat again on her own... Sorry if it seems like dumb questions, I don't know much about what chams can and can't have, so I'm pretty useless in that area, lol.
