please help my sick Google!!

google101

Member
My 8 1/2 mos old male Jackson Cham, Google, is sick. Took him to the vet and she said he may have something going on inside that isnt letting him digest his food. that is dehydrated and undernuristed right now due to the fact that he hasnt eaten in a few days. He hadnt eaten but 1-2 worms or pooped at all in 3 full day. The last few poos I saw were very small and very dry almost crusty. His uraite was normal but did have some orange on one end. Vet gave him a fluid boost at office. and sent us home with Baytril Oral Solution and to give him .01ml 2x a day for 7days, and to give him about 2.5ml of repta+boost 3-4x a day. She said he had no signd of respitroy problems.
He has a tight grip but cant raise his body. As I did some more reading this am, I think he might have MBD. He has some wierd bulges in his arms, double joints?
We have been doing our best with getting his meds and boost in him. I can get him to lap up for awhile with them but eventually he just keeps turning his head away. I fear Im doing more harm then helping wiht force feeding him, A few times some has leaked out his nose holes. Which makes me think im getting in his air ways which I know can cause respitory issues. I have seen him open his mouth a few times and take a big breath, but he seems to be breathing fine normally. He still hasnt pooed or eaten on his own, which the vet said it would take few days for him to gain strength, and he has nothing to poo.
We have also upped his temp and humidity to help with his healing. He has a 18x18x36inch screen cage. We have the back and right side mostly covered with a fake moss mat to help with humidity. He has both a heat and a UVB lamp, both only about 2.5mos old. We have a warm mist humidifier sitting next to him, with a fan about a foot or so in front of cage to pull the humidifier air into his cage. The fan blows away from cage. He has a diet of MWF-giant mealworms, and Sun, tues, thurs, sat, calcium dusted crickets from the pet store. Also he gets a Wax worm on sun as a treat. his up top temp sit around 90degreeswith humid about 50%, we do feel our gauge is thrown off bit on humid because it sits right under his lights. Bottom of cage usually read 70degrees and 70% humid. night time both top and bottom are around 70 and 70.
Can you help me out. It is heartbreaking to force feed him and Im worried about getting in his airways and causing more or bigger problems. Can you tell me where in his mouth his air holes are, I have tried to reserch this online and found nothing.
I have tried to attach pics of Google and his home, but cant get them attached here.
We love our Google and want to do what is best for him!! this whole thing has been heartbreaking, his weakness, the force feeding. All we want is for him to get healthy. We have dicussed and are prepared to do whatever we need to do for him to live a long and healthy life, Which if that meeans to find a better equipt owner, we would be very sad but want whats best for him. Right now we want to get him healthy and strong and then go from there!!
Please Help us!!
THANK YOU!!
 
As Laurie has suggested filing out the form will help alot.
Your temps might be a bit high for a jax IMO I would go no higher than 85 in the hott spot.
Also I would be curious to what for / why the vet has bescribed baytril. What is it they are trying to treat. Baytril can be hard on the kidneys so offer lots of water.
Welcome!! and best wishes
 
And I believe the Baytril is an antibiotic she gave us thikning he has something wrong in is digestive system. I dont remember what she said it was called. i think she may have just been taking prcautions.
 
That is my concern I have seen vets just perscribe baytril when they are not sure of what they are dealing with and that can do more harm than good IMO
 
Could you call the vet, and say you forgot what the baytril was for and you just wondered? If we knew that would also help.

Where are you located?
 
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Male Jackson Veiled, 8.5mos, we have had him about 2.5mos
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Other then him being sick right now, We have only had him out a few times when needed.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? MWF-giant mealworms about 8-10 a day, the other days he gets calcium dusted crickets 6-8 a day, from the pet store. We were told by store that they are gut feed. And on sundays he gets a wax worm as a treat.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Zoo med Repti calcium with out D3, and we were told to dust all cricks that we give him. And for the last three days we have been giving him Flukers Repta+boost high amp boost.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? We have a dripper thats drips all day, I have seen him drink directly from it as well as off of the leaves. We mist about 30sec 3-5 times a day.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? no parasite tests. Usually his poo brown, solid, and anywhere from 1/2-1 inch long, and covered by a kinda filmy stuff. The last 2 poos that size i did notice i could see parts of the cricks or worms like he wasn't chewing them all up. And the last 2 poos he has had were very much smaller and dried out looking.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. In the two months we have had him all seemed well.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Cage is a ZooMed all screened cage 18"x18"x36" front opener. We have fake moss mats on the back and right side to help with the humidity, and a warm mist humidifier on the left side outside his cage.
Lighting- we have both a UVB basking light and a heat lamp. Im not sure the brand or model, we got what most of our reserch recomended. Lamps are both on the same timer and go on at 6:45am and go off at 6:15pm. We did have it the full 12hours, but the dial to set the time is hard to get exact, and when daylight saving came we this was the closest we could get to 12 hrs.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? We have 2 ZooMed combo temp/humid gauges. One near top and one closer to the floor. DAy temp top sit around 85-90degrees, night about 70degrees. temp @floor about 70degrees both night and day.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Day top side reads about 50-60% but we think it is under reading actual huidity becuase it is right under the lamps. Night up top about 70%. Floor day humidity 80-90%(90 after mistings) night about 70%.
We mist 3-5 times a day, and have a warm mist humidifier that runs from about 7am-6:15pm. We have 2 Zoo Med combo temp/humid gauges one up top one about 5 inches off floor.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? We do have a small, 6in, Umbrella plant that we bought at the pet store.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? His cage is in our bedroom, which we arent in most of the day. We do have a fan on low a foot or two in front of his cage to pull the mist from the humidfier into his cage. the fan blows away from his cage with the back of the fan faceing cage. Cage sits on a stand about 2ft off the ground. Id say the top of his cage is about 5ft from our floor.
Location - Where are you geographically located? SW Illinios, on the Iowa boarder. East Dubuqe,IL, 61025


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. I think he has something that is not digusting food or something that would make him stop eating. I think he may have MBD. I know he has been dehydrated and under nurished this last wk. and we have been having to force feed him .01ml of Baytril 2x a day, and repta+boost 2.5ml 3-4x a day, today is the second full day of this. Im worried about the force feeding because a few times it has come out his nose/air holes, and I dont want to worsen his condition. He has some bulgy joints and cant hold himself up, and has a hard time climbing-he can basically only goes sideways. He is hhowever very alert and does try to move away when we go in to take him out for feeding.

I will try again to attach pics.
 
Vet said the Baytril will help his immune system if there is something his body is tring to fight. Because since he hasnt been eating his immune system prob isnt getting what it need to combat something.
 
I use facebook for pics copy and paste the url into the upload box ( has a mountain looking thing in it )
Also I would consider ditching the baytril, sounds like your vet is just using it cause they dont know what else to try.
 
I just took a qiuck look over your form, ( im at work ) but I think you are over feeding as well as I would ditch the mealworms for a few weeks at least, They can cause impaction if givin too often.
I would try to give him a little mineral oil to get things moving. ( dip the head of a feeder into the oil and feed off ) and offer soft bodied feeders for a awhile such as silk and horn worms.
Greatlakes hornworm is close to you I beleive.
 
Does it have to be mineral oil, or can it be like house hold veggie oil? Also can you tell me where the air holes in his mouth our? He has been lapping up about half of his boost but then he turns away after awhile and I have to force the rest of it. and sometimes when I do force, some comes out his nose =( I would like to know where the holes are so I can be sure to avoid them.
 
Google looks like he has a little more strength today!! He made it from one of his ladders to another this am before he even got any Boost. Still cant stand up, but he hasnt gotten anywhere on his own this week, so Im taking it as a good sign =) mommas still very concerned thu. Still no eating on his own, and no poop. Anyone have any ideas to get something in him he can poop out? Thanks guys!!
 
How do I tell if my cham is in pain?

How would you tell if your cham is in pain? Also I noticed today when giving Google his boost, when I first took him out he rolled his eyes back in his head. His eye opening kinda sqwished, and inside was just all white. When I touched him they rolled back to normal, but it still freaked me out, what gives with that?

I did stop giving him the Baytril too.




My 8 1/2 mos old male Jackson Cham, Google, is sick. Took him to the vet and she said he may have something going on inside that isnt letting him digest his food. that is dehydrated and undernuristed right now due to the fact that he hasnt eaten in a few days. He hadnt eaten but 1-2 worms or pooped at all in 3 full day. The last few poos I saw were very small and very dry almost crusty. His uraite was normal but did have some orange on one end. Vet gave him a fluid boost at office. and sent us home with Baytril Oral Solution and to give him .01ml 2x a day for 7days, and to give him about 2.5ml of repta+boost 3-4x a day. She said he had no signd of respitroy problems.
He has a tight grip but cant raise his body. As I did some more reading this am, I think he might have MBD. He has some wierd bulges in his arms, double joints?
We have been doing our best with getting his meds and boost in him. I can get him to lap up for awhile with them but eventually he just keeps turning his head away. I fear Im doing more harm then helping wiht force feeding him, A few times some has leaked out his nose holes. Which makes me think im getting in his air ways which I know can cause respitory issues. I have seen him open his mouth a few times and take a big breath, but he seems to be breathing fine normally. He still hasnt pooed or eaten on his own, which the vet said it would take few days for him to gain strength, and he has nothing to poo.
We have also upped his temp and humidity to help with his healing. He has a 18x18x36inch screen cage. We have the back and right side mostly covered with a fake moss mat to help with humidity. He has both a heat and a UVB lamp, both only about 2.5mos old. We have a warm mist humidifier sitting next to him, with a fan about a foot or so in front of cage to pull the humidifier air into his cage. The fan blows away from cage. He has a diet of MWF-giant mealworms, and Sun, tues, thurs, sat, calcium dusted crickets from the pet store. Also he gets a Wax worm on sun as a treat. his up top temp sit around 90degreeswith humid about 50%, we do feel our gauge is thrown off bit on humid because it sits right under his lights. Bottom of cage usually read 70degrees and 70% humid. night time both top and bottom are around 70 and 70.
Can you help me out. It is heartbreaking to force feed him and Im worried about getting in his airways and causing more or bigger problems. Can you tell me where in his mouth his air holes are, I have tried to reserch this online and found nothing.
I have tried to attach pics of Google and his home, but cant get them attached here.
We love our Google and want to do what is best for him!! this whole thing has been heartbreaking, his weakness, the force feeding. All we want is for him to get healthy. We have dicussed and are prepared to do whatever we need to do for him to live a long and healthy life, Which if that meeans to find a better equipt owner, we would be very sad but want whats best for him. Right now we want to get him healthy and strong and then go from there!!
Please Help us!!
THANK YOU!!
 
Don't worry, all chams do that with their eyes, it is how they clean them. I would split his food servings so he will hopefully take it. I mix up something we all call bug juice to feed to chams who are not eating on their own. Let me know if you want to try it.
 
To all that are interested in helping the OP. They emailed me pictures and it is a Veiled Chameleon not a Jackson's. I don't keep Veileds so maybe someone with experience can have the OP send the pictures via email. The Chameleon doesn't look well and probably has MBD.
 
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Please confirm if it is a Jackson or a Veiled - care is quite different between these two types.

Good info on how to forcefeed properly in this old thread:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-best-force-feed-32372/
you are correct to worry about getting stuff in the airways.


I also agree that Baytril without good specific reason is not a good plan.

A few days without food isnt a big deal - has it truly only been 3 days? It sounds like you've been over-feeding anyways. Superworms, mealworms and waxworms are VERY fatty. Plus you should be gutloading both the superworms and the crickets - It is highly unlikely the petstore is properly gutloading the crickets. Gutloading is important for getting vitamins into your chameleon (and especially as you are not using a vitamin supplement).

If I were force feeding, I would be smashing up insects with some calcium and water. If the cham has MBD I'd be using liquid calcium, and also considering injections to help it into the bones.
 
Last edited:
Google is a Veiled, Sorry, its been a really long week.
I did stop the Baytril.
I will check out the link for feeding.
overfeeding-got it
gutloading-got it

I have been feeding him Repta+boost 2.3ml 3-4x a day. Would it be better to do the bugs/calcium?
I did buy the liquid calcium and did get a little in him today.

So as of right now, Google is still "swimming" everywhere. Very alert, stdrong grip, no real control of where his front legs go. He can not lift his body. His back legs do seem stronger then front. Still not eating on his own. No poop or pee-day6or7.

If Google was your little guys what exactly would you be doing for him?
Is there any way to tell he is in pain?

I can not put pics on here, Can I email them to you so you can take a look at him? Please and Thank you!
Schavone

Please confirm if it is a Jackson or a Veiled - care is quite different between these two types.

Good info on how to forcefeed properly in this old thread:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-best-force-feed-32372/
you are correct to worry about getting stuff in the airways.


I also agree that Baytril without good specific reason is not a good plan.

A few days without food isnt a big deal - has it truly only been 3 days? It sounds like you've been over-feeding anyways. Superworms, mealworms and waxworms are VERY fatty. Plus you should be gutloading both the superworms and the crickets - It is highly unlikely the petstore is properly gutloading the crickets. Gutloading is important for getting vitamins into your chameleon (and especially as you are not using a vitamin supplement).

If I were force feeding, I would be smashing up insects with some calcium and water. If the cham has MBD I'd be using liquid calcium, and also considering injections to help it into the bones.
 
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