xanthoman
Avid Member
havent watched the vids but it all sounds like good advice to me. jmo
RESCUE JACk50N trying to bring him back to life;HELP;?!
- Thread starter shineru
- Start date
havent watched the vids but it all sounds like good advice to me. jmo
Swayne8998
Established Member
I did not say the IMPROPER supplementing was important.......
xanthoman
Avid Member
if an animal has been over supplemented no amount of further supplementation will improve the problem, no matter how little. an animal that has been over supped already has more supps than its system can process, adding to that in any qty, only makes the problem worse, and only prevents any efforts of flushing from working. every minute of every day that an animal has more supps than it can process it is risking organ calcification, organ perforation (osmotic lysis), and organ failure. jmo
Last edited:
Swayne8998
Established Member
I am not doubting at all that your statements are true. You very much know what you are doing, just please read my last post, because that's pretty much what I just said. I also don't know how he's supplementing, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
Swayne8998
Established Member
Sounds great!
shineru
New Member
i also made a homemade waterfall type of thing pluss am going to add a watter stone so the water is moving more. ( The water pump is also a filter and im planing to clean it atleas once a week so theres no problems with him and the water i know how they temp to also poop in it )
So as you can see in here i have the whole set up changed, i used reptisun 0.5 like you guys asked. ( on wich on thinking on changing it to 10 so that i know its really hearting him. ) & i used a regular lamp that you would buy in your hardware store since i noticed that seem to him them a better basking spot.
Now only reason why im thinking of putting him back to his smaller cage is because this is a wat taller cage so he had clime to the verry top and fell strait to the ground if it wasnt cause the water broke he falll i dnt think he would off made it , but this him rught after he feld.
camimom
New Member
Ok...
First remove that waterdish thing.
He could drown.
Second- you need tall plants in there. He needs to be at the top of that caeg, not the bottom.
The lights wont work if hes sitting at the bottom of the cage the whole time.
Get some tall plants, like scheffelara, pothos and put them in there, so he can climb on them.
First remove that waterdish thing.
He could drown.
Second- you need tall plants in there. He needs to be at the top of that caeg, not the bottom.
The lights wont work if hes sitting at the bottom of the cage the whole time.
Get some tall plants, like scheffelara, pothos and put them in there, so he can climb on them.
pssh
Avid Member
Get rid of the bubbler/waterfall stuff. They can drown, especially since he is sick and may be more likely to fall. He needs vertical space. If he is well enough to climb, then he needs it. Go out to a nursery or a home depot and pick up a plant. Preferably a pothos, dwarf umbrella, or a ficus tree.
If you need plants, I can send you some nice 2-3 foot pothos cuttings by mail if you pay shipping. It wont be enough to fill the whole cage, but it will be a start. All you will have to do is get some organic soil and a pot and plant them.
If you need plants, I can send you some nice 2-3 foot pothos cuttings by mail if you pay shipping. It wont be enough to fill the whole cage, but it will be a start. All you will have to do is get some organic soil and a pot and plant them.
SpartyTessy
New Member
Do not get the 10.0. You want to give him a basking spot about 6" from the top and also at many different levels through out the cage. Also make sure the basking light isnt shining down the middle throughout the while cage but maybe angle it so you can focus the basking spot. The purpose is so he can go to the top and bask if he likes and then move throughout the cage being able to regulate his temp between 82 at the very top and mid to low 70"s throughout the rest of the cage. You for sure do not want his setup at the bottom of the cage. Get some branches and clean them off then you can use push pins securing them throughout the cage giving him many walkways.
SpartyTessy
New Member
Take a look at this thread which has many great enclosures with pics in it to get ideas. https://www.chameleonforums.com/official-enclosure-picture-thread-49688/
shineru
New Member
highly doub he would drown because the water isnt deep enuff and he seem to enjoy it also i dont have the fogger yet so this is helping my keep the humidity up & im working on the plants and by the way he up and about rooming around chilling ill take some more pics right now so you guys can see, he seem to be really enjoy this tho aside from him falling from the top of the cage..
camimom
New Member
Trust me, they can drown in a tiny amount of water.
humans can drown in just 6 inches of water.
Another problem is bacteria. standing water allows for bacteria growth, if he somehow drinks that water, poops in it, or a bug gets in it, and he ingests it, he can get very sick.
If you want to get humidity up, get live plants, they keep humidity much higher.
humans can drown in just 6 inches of water.
Another problem is bacteria. standing water allows for bacteria growth, if he somehow drinks that water, poops in it, or a bug gets in it, and he ingests it, he can get very sick.
If you want to get humidity up, get live plants, they keep humidity much higher.
Elizadolots
New Member
I agree with removing the pool of water. There have been horror stories here of chameleons falling into water and drowning or nearly drowning. Remember, when they fall they are often dazed and unable to move for a few moments, he would be unable to get out of even 1/2 inch of water.
Live plants are the best way to get humidity up. Your enclosure is big enough that you can get some terracotta pots on the bottom. Plants in terracotta are amazing at keeping humidity up. Heck, just the pots are remarkable, so stack them. Put one big pot upside down, set another pot with a plant on top of it. Water until the plant and both pots are soaked.... You can also get hydroballs:
Fill a terracotta pot with those, soak it all down until it's dripping wet...it will keep your humidity up very nicely without any danger of ingestion or drowning.
Live plants are the best way to get humidity up. Your enclosure is big enough that you can get some terracotta pots on the bottom. Plants in terracotta are amazing at keeping humidity up. Heck, just the pots are remarkable, so stack them. Put one big pot upside down, set another pot with a plant on top of it. Water until the plant and both pots are soaked.... You can also get hydroballs:
Fill a terracotta pot with those, soak it all down until it's dripping wet...it will keep your humidity up very nicely without any danger of ingestion or drowning.
xanthoman
Avid Member
my thoughts, just calling it like i see it.
1. the purpose of the reptisun is not to heat. reptisun 10.0 not recommended. the only purpose of the reptisun is to provide uvb for vitamin d3 synthesis.
5.0 is a proven montane bulb, 10.0 has proven to be problematic for some chams and or keepers.
less than thriving jacksons should have reduced temps anyway. (max80* in the sweet spot of the uva basking.)
2. waterfalls and dishes of water are steadfastly proven cham hazards especially where montains are concerned.
as somebody who has performed significant amounts of microscopy, and read hundreds of requests for help from people with sick chams, i can tell you that this is a very real, serious, and probably fatal hazard.
3. the cage is completely devoid of foliage. remember the goal is not to make the cage look cool, but to meet his care requirements. any goal towards improving the aesthetic qualities of the cage needs to be secondary to his care requirements.
what he needs is foliage and lots of it !!!!!
it doesnt matter what you think of the cage, it only matters what he thinks of it.
cage needs to be setup bare bottom, plants should have soil redone for hygienic planting (to discourage parasites), fiberglass screen should cover the top of the soil and 1"+ flat stones should be used to hold the screen down (jacksons like snails, do not feed wild snails due to pathogen risk, but the stones you use to hold the screen on top of the soil must not be sized or resemble snails, or he may try to eat them that is why the are best flat and 1"+).
live plants also give off oxygen, something important to an animal that comes from remote pristine areas, but is now kept in an indoor environment., live plants are also necessary to maintain the proper temp and humidity gradients required.
4. cage should have a lineal 6500k (kelvin color temp) for plant health and better (brighter) viewing experience. imo, you cannot maintain a healthy thriving jacksons without a predominance of live plants, let alone return a compromised specimen back to health. imo schlefferas are the hardiest of the safe plants that stand up well to hygienic planting (hygienic soil replacement) you can get a single schleffera for less than $20 that will fill 85-90% of the cage (ideal)
5.the only light intended to provide heat is the regular 40watt incandescent house bulb, and only during daylight hrs. jacksons are a mountainous arboreal species that means they like cool nite temps, predominately cool day temps, lots of foliage and that they are most comfortable (least stressed) when high up (basking spot at eye level or above) and the ability to be almost invisible amongst the foliage.
the incandescent household bulb produces the reduced heat requirements of a montane and supplies uva which is a necessary component of the lighting plan. uva helps discourage depression and provides a general sense of well being as well as provides appetite stimulation. stress is a major cause of cham illness, the more stressed your cham is, the more susceptible to metabolic issues he will be (ie loss of health).
6. you can choose to learn from the collective experience of keepers who have already learned by making the same mistakes (including myself), or you can just argue their merits, until it is too late to save your cham.
by the time a cham has issues noticeable to inexperienced keepers, it already has serious, possibly life threatening, metabolic issues.
everyday a cham spends in a compromised state of health, it is closer to becoming acute + irreversible, ie; non recoverable status.
sick chams can often go from being saveable to being irrecoverable in matter of days. everyday wasted in implementing these proven suggestions, is a day wasted in terms of recovery. every day your cham spends in a compromised state of health, it becomes less likely that he will recover.
7. the experience of almost 15 yrs of cham keeping and keeping dozens of jacksons tells me that your chams clock is ticking and time will soon rapidly run out to fix these issues. you can choose to fix them now and possibly save your cham, or you can choose to debate them while your cham becomes closer to being un-saveable. once osmotic lysis and/or renal failure sets in, there is NO hope of recovery.
8.there is a reason they only exist in a few small corners of the world. the basic idea is to re-create that environment as closely as possible, fail to do a decent job of that, and he WILL die. (and it wont be a mystery)
9. ps edit; please understand that the purpose of this post is to help not to criticize, but sometimes a wake up call is the best way to help, imo this is one of those times.
10. these are just the issues noticed in your last post, and they dont even address the issues of diet, gutloading or supplementation. if you want to save this animal, or even keep it alive, a crash course in montane husbandry is strongly recommended. jmo (but what do i know)
1. the purpose of the reptisun is not to heat. reptisun 10.0 not recommended. the only purpose of the reptisun is to provide uvb for vitamin d3 synthesis.
5.0 is a proven montane bulb, 10.0 has proven to be problematic for some chams and or keepers.
less than thriving jacksons should have reduced temps anyway. (max80* in the sweet spot of the uva basking.)
2. waterfalls and dishes of water are steadfastly proven cham hazards especially where montains are concerned.
as somebody who has performed significant amounts of microscopy, and read hundreds of requests for help from people with sick chams, i can tell you that this is a very real, serious, and probably fatal hazard.
3. the cage is completely devoid of foliage. remember the goal is not to make the cage look cool, but to meet his care requirements. any goal towards improving the aesthetic qualities of the cage needs to be secondary to his care requirements.
what he needs is foliage and lots of it !!!!!
it doesnt matter what you think of the cage, it only matters what he thinks of it.
cage needs to be setup bare bottom, plants should have soil redone for hygienic planting (to discourage parasites), fiberglass screen should cover the top of the soil and 1"+ flat stones should be used to hold the screen down (jacksons like snails, do not feed wild snails due to pathogen risk, but the stones you use to hold the screen on top of the soil must not be sized or resemble snails, or he may try to eat them that is why the are best flat and 1"+).
live plants also give off oxygen, something important to an animal that comes from remote pristine areas, but is now kept in an indoor environment., live plants are also necessary to maintain the proper temp and humidity gradients required.
4. cage should have a lineal 6500k (kelvin color temp) for plant health and better (brighter) viewing experience. imo, you cannot maintain a healthy thriving jacksons without a predominance of live plants, let alone return a compromised specimen back to health. imo schlefferas are the hardiest of the safe plants that stand up well to hygienic planting (hygienic soil replacement) you can get a single schleffera for less than $20 that will fill 85-90% of the cage (ideal)
5.the only light intended to provide heat is the regular 40watt incandescent house bulb, and only during daylight hrs. jacksons are a mountainous arboreal species that means they like cool nite temps, predominately cool day temps, lots of foliage and that they are most comfortable (least stressed) when high up (basking spot at eye level or above) and the ability to be almost invisible amongst the foliage.
the incandescent household bulb produces the reduced heat requirements of a montane and supplies uva which is a necessary component of the lighting plan. uva helps discourage depression and provides a general sense of well being as well as provides appetite stimulation. stress is a major cause of cham illness, the more stressed your cham is, the more susceptible to metabolic issues he will be (ie loss of health).
6. you can choose to learn from the collective experience of keepers who have already learned by making the same mistakes (including myself), or you can just argue their merits, until it is too late to save your cham.
by the time a cham has issues noticeable to inexperienced keepers, it already has serious, possibly life threatening, metabolic issues.
everyday a cham spends in a compromised state of health, it is closer to becoming acute + irreversible, ie; non recoverable status.
sick chams can often go from being saveable to being irrecoverable in matter of days. everyday wasted in implementing these proven suggestions, is a day wasted in terms of recovery. every day your cham spends in a compromised state of health, it becomes less likely that he will recover.
7. the experience of almost 15 yrs of cham keeping and keeping dozens of jacksons tells me that your chams clock is ticking and time will soon rapidly run out to fix these issues. you can choose to fix them now and possibly save your cham, or you can choose to debate them while your cham becomes closer to being un-saveable. once osmotic lysis and/or renal failure sets in, there is NO hope of recovery.
8.there is a reason they only exist in a few small corners of the world. the basic idea is to re-create that environment as closely as possible, fail to do a decent job of that, and he WILL die. (and it wont be a mystery)
9. ps edit; please understand that the purpose of this post is to help not to criticize, but sometimes a wake up call is the best way to help, imo this is one of those times.
10. these are just the issues noticed in your last post, and they dont even address the issues of diet, gutloading or supplementation. if you want to save this animal, or even keep it alive, a crash course in montane husbandry is strongly recommended. jmo (but what do i know)
Last edited:
Swayne8998
Established Member
As camimom said, yes, he will drown anyway, especially since he's sick. It also breeds bacteria like crazy if he poops in it, etc. As others are saying, get a tall plant and more vines to get him wayyy higher.
shineru
New Member
Okay i been thinking about everyone opinion, about how i should have his cage set up and i'll take the waterfall out since no one thinks its a good idea. Also i didnt try to make the cage cool or pretty for my enjoyment. I just when to petsmart and got everything you guy's tould me to get, and i bough him does tree's branches that are suppost to help him with his shading and everything. I did when back to try to exchange the repti fogger, just untill i get the cold fogger ( i read that they prefare a cold fogger better than the repti fogger wich produces warm fogg ) but it turn out that all of the fogger products they had were damage. -__- just my luck riqht.. well whatever and it took such a long time to pick everything out, pluss aside from the fact that it was 4 of july and the store clossing at 6pm i was in a rush. So i did'nt get to go to homedepot, but the last time i when there, i did bought some small vine plant that. I still do have but when i try to ask for any of the plants you guys talking about, no one had a clue. 
but dont worry am on the hunt for some plant's, Now in my vield smaller set up the vine plant in there are more out there should i put him there insted and put my female vield in the other set up? since it had more plants? also he seem to be moving around more, but i dont see him eating them. Could it be that hes eating n drinknig behined my back? also aside from the waterfall helping me keep the humidity up , it was also the only thing in his previews cage in the petstore so im trying to bring the stress down for him. anyhow thank you all for the time and efford been apply to this young living creature
but dont worry am on the hunt for some plant's, Now in my vield smaller set up the vine plant in there are more out there should i put him there insted and put my female vield in the other set up? since it had more plants? also he seem to be moving around more, but i dont see him eating them. Could it be that hes eating n drinknig behined my back? also aside from the waterfall helping me keep the humidity up , it was also the only thing in his previews cage in the petstore so im trying to bring the stress down for him. anyhow thank you all for the time and efford been apply to this young living creature Elizadolots
New Member
Obviously I've had way too much wine to be posting here because I found that post very confusing....I'll address the one thing I can grasp: Yes, he can eat and drink behind your back...in fact, it's rare to be witness to them eating and drinking. I have one I've had for a year and a half...I believe I've seen eat 3 times and drink 7....
