Sick veiled chameleon. Help please

[hlabloul]

Are you not supplementing the insects? You would not put vitamins in his water, you can overdose them this way. You would very lightly coat the insects in the correct supplement for that day's feeding.

They have their gut feeding food until i can get the fresh food to gut load. The vitamins are in a small dropper for now. Hes still not eating or drinking on his own but he'll get sassy and open his mouth so thats when i pop in a cricket or super worm.

 

[Beman]

They have their gut feeding food until i can get the fresh food to gut load. The vitamins are in a small dropper for now. Hes still not eating or drinking on his own but he'll get sassy and open his mouth so thats when i pop in a cricket or super worm.

I would like to go over a few things with you at 200 grams he is by no means skinny. A healthy adult male veiled will normally run 125-150 grams based on their total length from the tip of their nose to the end of the tail. I will tell you based off that pic where he is fired up showing his yellows that he is overweight at his size. He is holding excess fat in his casque and his cheeks. His limbs are also thick. Once it gets to this point it means they have far too much excess fat around their organs. This can cause additional issues with organ failure and you can start seeing gout from his renal system not being able to process out the uric acid in his body. So being overly concerned about force feeding is not something you need to do right now.

I looked back through your posts and did not see anything on what vitamins you are using. Can you please post a picture? I am concerned you will overdose him depending on what you are using because you are adding it into the water. This becomes very dangerous especially when you add in him being overweight. IF you are using a vitamin that has D3 or A in it you can further compromise organ function. Read this and it will explain D3 toxicity in depth https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/d3-poisoning.2401/

I would do straight water... But I would try to get him drinking on his own in his cage so you do not accidentally aspirate him. Based on his eyes he does not look dehydrated.

Not sure if you have the cage set up yet but this is where I would focus attention on. This will give him the space he needs to settle down. Being in high stress situations is very hard on their immune system.

I highly recommend reading through this because it will help you with all the details including how to set up an enclosure. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
and this link will explain what a veiled chameleon specifically needs. https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/

 

[hlabloul]

I would like to go over a few things with you at 200 grams he is by no means skinny. A healthy adult male veiled will normally run 125-150 grams based on their total length from the tip of their nose to the end of the tail. I will tell you based off that pic where he is fired up showing his yellows that he is overweight at his size. He is holding excess fat in his casque and his cheeks. His limbs are also thick. Once it gets to this point it means they have far too much excess fat around their organs. This can cause additional issues with organ failure and you can start seeing gout from his renal system not being able to process out the uric acid in his body. So being overly concerned about force feeding is not something you need to do right now.

I looked back through your posts and did not see anything on what vitamins you are using. Can you please post a picture? I am concerned you will overdose him depending on what you are using because you are adding it into the water. This becomes very dangerous especially when you add in him being overweight. IF you are using a vitamin that has D3 or A in it you can further compromise organ function. Read this and it will explain D3 toxicity in depth https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/d3-poisoning.2401/

I would do straight water... But I would try to get him drinking on his own in his cage so you do not accidentally aspirate him. Based on his eyes he does not look dehydrated.

Not sure if you have the cage set up yet but this is where I would focus attention on. This will give him the space he needs to settle down. Being in high stress situations is very hard on their immune system.

I highly recommend reading through this because it will help you with all the details including how to set up an enclosure. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
and this link will explain what a veiled chameleon specifically needs. https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/

I've never said i put vitamins in his water. They come from a dropper. I'll attach a picture below. Even at 200gms he looks extremely skinny to me, so thats why it concerns me. I'm working on getting a cage but do not have the funds yet so he is still in his large box with lights set up. Soft bottom in case he falls again. With water I've been giving it to him in a plain syringe, plain water and farther back in his mouth so he does not aspirate. I'm truly doing the best i can right now.

 

[Beman]

I've never said i put vitamins in his water. They come from a dropper. I'll attach a picture below. Even at 200gms he looks extremely skinny to me, so thats why it concerns me. I'm working on getting a cage but do not have the funds yet so he is still in his large box with lights set up. Soft bottom in case he falls again. With water I've been giving it to him in a plain syringe, plain water and farther back in his mouth so he does not aspirate. I'm truly doing the best i can right now.

This is why I wanted to double check what you are using. I know you are doing your best which is why I want to make sure you have back up from those of us that know their husbandry. So this liquid supplement you can not use with a chameleon. It has extremely high levels of Vitamin A and D3. Both are fat soluble and both can cause severe issues when given too much.

For example if you take one of the most common powdered multivitamin supplements used for chameleons, Repashy Calcium plus LoD. This is only recommended for veileds and Panthers 2 times a month say the 1st and 15th of the month. This supplement for vitamin A has 80,000 IU/lb and for D3 has 8,000 IU/lb.

If you look at the label you can see the liquid supplement has an extremely high level of both A and D3. Far exceeding any powdered supplement that is used for chameleons. This is why I said you want to avoid using this.

Get some plain calcium without D3 powder. There are quite a few types you can buy in any petstore. It should just say without D3. You would lightly dust any insect you give him in this right before you feed it to him. This balances out the high phosphorus level of the insect out. This will be all he needs. I would not give any multivitamin powder for at least 6-8 weeks as the liquid vitamin needs to clear from his tissues. This takes time due to it being fat soluble and not water soluble.

I know to you he looks thin... this can be hard for most keepers to fully understand until they have been in the hobby for awhile. Visually being able to identify when they are holding too much weight. It is not how other animals hold fat either which makes it even harder. Chameleons store the excess fat in the casque and cheek pad. When they are even thicker it shows in their limbs. When you see these visual signs it means they are considered obese. Because the visual signs that we can see are the last ones because prior to this they have gotten a thick fat pad around their internal organs. We can not visually see that though due to how it forms. Not like a cat or dog where you can just see they are holding far too much weight in their belly. So with chams it can be very hard to understand that they are overweight when you are not familiar with the species and what a healthy weight looks like vs doesnt look like.

 

[MissSkittles]

@hlabloul now that your big guy has proven to be a strong fighter, let’s help you get everything correct for him. The first thing is to get him eating on his own. It’s very possible that he has parasites, which not only put him in the condition you found him, but also causing him to not eat on his own. Usually a visit is required (by law) before a vet can run a fecal. However, he’s already been seen by one so they should be willing to run the fecal without another visit. The sample needs to be as fresh as possible - collected within 24 hours of testing. You can store it in the fridge if needed.
Getting started with chameleons is pretty costly, but once you’ve bought the enclosure, lights and all that, it isn’t so bad. The sooner you can get Neptune’s kit, the better. There are some few ways to reduce costs of set up, such as getting plants or clippings from friends and family. Pothos is the easiest and most used plant for chameleons and starts so well from clippings. I prefer using at least one tall plant, like a schefflera, weeping fig or money tree and then fill in around it with pothos, philodendron and tradescantia zebrina. No fake plants. Veileds will nibble their plants, so fake ones can pose a risk for bowel obstruction. Instead of buying fake vines and such, go scavenging for natural branches of varied diameters from trees like oak or sycamore and others that don’t have heavy sap or odor like pine and eucalyptus. Give them a little scrub with dish soap, blast rinse with a hose and let dry in the sun. Easy peasy. How to hang those branches presents a challenge. There are dragon ledges, which are awesome. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ I’ve been using plastic garden trellis too attached to the enclosure frame with thin wires, adding a few small screws to the frame to hook it to. It’s then sturdy enough to even hold some plants and looks kind of nice too.
You’ll want to start thinking about what you can use to sit his enclosure on. Chameleons feel safest when they are as high up as possible, so you’ll want to avoid the enclosure sitting on the floor. If you haven’t already read all the modules at Chameleon Academy, or watched tons of Neptune videos, I again urge you to do so. Any questions you may have, just ask.

 

[hlabloul]

@hlabloul now that your big guy has proven to be a strong fighter, let’s help you get everything correct for him. The first thing is to get him eating on his own. It’s very possible that he has parasites, which not only put him in the condition you found him, but also causing him to not eat on his own. Usually a visit is required (by law) before a vet can run a fecal. However, he’s already been seen by one so they should be willing to run the fecal without another visit. The sample needs to be as fresh as possible - collected within 24 hours of testing. You can store it in the fridge if needed.
Getting started with chameleons is pretty costly, but once you’ve bought the enclosure, lights and all that, it isn’t so bad. The sooner you can get Neptune’s kit, the better. There are some few ways to reduce costs of set up, such as getting plants or clippings from friends and family. Pothos is the easiest and most used plant for chameleons and starts so well from clippings. I prefer using at least one tall plant, like a schefflera, weeping fig or money tree and then fill in around it with pothos, philodendron and tradescantia zebrina. No fake plants. Veileds will nibble their plants, so fake ones can pose a risk for bowel obstruction. Instead of buying fake vines and such, go scavenging for natural branches of varied diameters from trees like oak or sycamore and others that don’t have heavy sap or odor like pine and eucalyptus. Give them a little scrub with dish soap, blast rinse with a hose and let dry in the sun. Easy peasy. How to hang those branches presents a challenge. There are dragon ledges, which are awesome. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ I’ve been using plastic garden trellis too attached to the enclosure frame with thin wires, adding a few small screws to the frame to hook it to. It’s then sturdy enough to even hold some plants and looks kind of nice too.
You’ll want to start thinking about what you can use to sit his enclosure on. Chameleons feel safest when they are as high up as possible, so you’ll want to avoid the enclosure sitting on the floor. If you haven’t already read all the modules at Chameleon Academy, or watched tons of Neptune videos, I again urge you to do so. Any questions you may have, just ask.

Alright! I'm feeling good. Bubba is a sassy pants today. We're going with trying to build it first. I know it sounds like a bad idea but right now i can't buy the neptune kit. I have the uvb, the branches, hes getting a money tree to start off. I got the calcium w/o d3 duster for crickets, im spraying/misting down every day, and i got a drip waterer today. The home depot awaits. I'm going to ask my dad for help bc... I'm not bob the builder but i know what i want in general. A 24x24x48 set up with a good lock. (Bubba has gone gallivanting around my living room again today. He knocked the crickets over, knocked his icu box over, and was found again on the internet router. Oh and the dog was hiding. ) I've been calling him Bubba the menace. But anyways. Its a great day in the greater Monroe area at 102° . I hope everyone is having a fabulous day

 

[MissSkittles]

Not sure if it would be easier or not, but some have gotten old dining room hutches or large curios and modified them. You could also check Craig’s list and Facebook marketplace for a gently used XL enclosure. Just have to sanitize it well.

 

[hlabloul]

Not sure if it would be easier or not, but some have gotten old dining room hutches or large curios and modified them. You could also check Craig’s list and Facebook marketplace for a gently used XL enclosure. Just have to sanitize it well.

Thats really cool! I might try that later!! Thank you so much!!

 

[hlabloul]

Update! I didnt realize I got paid today! Hooray! So I ordered the neptune kit . I was determined to build it but like i said i am not bob the builder and i questioned my building skills too much. This morning Bubba is ignoring me. I think he knows I'm faking it when I act afraid when he puffs up and hisses at me. If its ok I'm going to keep posting updates on Bubba here. here are a few pics of the Bubbs from yesterday.

 

[Sonny13]

He's gorgeous and keep spamming us.
Great news and take your time building-up the enclosure. Best to do it perfect at once, than with bits and pieces, that will be more stressful for Bubba.

 

[MissSkittles]

Update! I didnt realize I got paid today! Hooray! So I ordered the neptune kit . I was determined to build it but like i said i am not bob the builder and i questioned my building skills too much. This morning Bubba is ignoring me. I think he knows I'm faking it when I act afraid when he puffs up and hisses at me. If its ok I'm going to keep posting updates on Bubba here. here are a few pics of the Bubbs from yesterday.

Yay! This started out as what I was afraid would be a very sad thread, and I’m loving that it’s all turned around! Bubba is looking gorgeous with all of those yellows! I’m so very happy for him to have gotten such a fantastic home with you!
In the kit are supplements. You already know about lightly dusting every feeding with calcium without D3. The ReptiVite with D3 you’ll use for one feeding every other week (or some say twice a month). Adding pics of what I did with the garden trellis. Do keep in mind that I have double sized bioactive enclosures, so your results will vary.

 

[hlabloul]

Yay! This started out as what I was afraid would be a very sad thread, and I’m loving that it’s all turned around! Bubba is looking gorgeous with all of those yellows! I’m so very happy for him to have gotten such a fantastic home with you!
In the kit are supplements. You already know about lightly dusting every feeding with calcium without D3. The ReptiVite with D3 you’ll use for one feeding every other week (or some say twice a month). Adding pics of what I did with the garden trellis. Do keep in mind that I have double sized bioactive enclosures, so your results will vary.

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Its so pretty!! Enclosure goals for sure!!

 

[hlabloul]

He's gorgeous and keep spamming us.
Great news and take your time building-up the enclosure. Best to do it perfect at once, than with bits and pieces, that will be more stressful for Bubba.

Thank you so much!! Ol Bubbs is pretty tough i guess lol. I'm getting a parasite test as soon as the vet calls me back to rule everything out.

 

[hlabloul]

Good news! Bubba's enclosure will be here tomorrow!! He's in time out again so he stops wandering around my living room and trying to fight the cat. I'm so glad he has that fight in him !!

 

[MissSkittles]

Ooh! Do be very very careful with the cat near him. Just one bite is all it takes and Bubba will be gravely injured. Cats and chameleons are a dangerous combo. It’s even happened that someone’s cat got on top of the screen enclosure, which it broke thru and was able to take a fatal bite. I have my enclosures so high (only a foot or so from the ceiling) and no furniture near to leap from. I also have attached some fake plants to the front which provides some visual barrier. Even though I’m down to just one geriatric cat now, I don’t think any cats in the house were even aware that the chameleons existed.

 

[hlabloul]

Ooh! Do be very very careful with the cat near him. Just one bite is all it takes and Bubba will be gravely injured. Cats and chameleons are a dangerous combo. It’s even happened that someone’s cat got on top of the screen enclosure, which it broke thru and was able to take a fatal bite. I have my enclosures so high (only a foot or so from the ceiling) and no furniture near to leap from. I also have attached some fake plants to the front which provides some visual barrier. Even though I’m down to just one geriatric cat now, I don’t think any cats in the house were even aware that the chameleons existed.

Friend when i saw him batting at the cat he looked like a slow motion boxer. The cat was just sitting there (she likes to observe) but i got them apart as quickly as i could. Bubba the Menace strikes again. I hope he likes his new house I'm getting a money tree and some plants to go in it tomorrow and some nice branches.

 

[Sonny13]

Ooh! Do be very very careful with the cat near him. Just one bite is all it takes and Bubba will be gravely injured. Cats and chameleons are a dangerous combo. It’s even happened that someone’s cat got on top of the screen enclosure, which it broke thru and was able to take a fatal bite. I have my enclosures so high (only a foot or so from the ceiling) and no furniture near to leap from. I also have attached some fake plants to the front which provides some visual barrier. Even though I’m down to just one geriatric cat now, I don’t think any cats in the house were even aware that the chameleons existed.

I can’t agree more, we’ve some examples here (yes with pictures) of how terrible wrong this can go within a blink of an eye. And it never ends well for the chameleon

 

[Sonny13]

Friend when i saw him batting at the cat he looked like a slow motion boxer. The cat was just sitting there (she likes to observe) but i got them apart as quickly as i could. Bubba the Menace strikes again. I hope he likes his new house I'm getting a money tree and some plants to go in it tomorrow and some nice branches.

I’m sure he’ll love it

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

Update! I didnt realize I got paid today! Hooray! So I ordered the neptune kit . I was determined to build it but like i said i am not bob the builder and i questioned my building skills too much. This morning Bubba is ignoring me. I think he knows I'm faking it when I act afraid when he puffs up and hisses at me. If its ok I'm going to keep posting updates on Bubba here. here are a few pics of the Bubbs from yesterday.

It makes me super happy to see how well your Cham is doing after you rescued him, he’s lucky you happened to see him and decided to try and help him

 

[BleuSaphir]

Update! I didnt realize I got paid today! Hooray! So I ordered the neptune kit . I was determined to build it but like i said i am not bob the builder and i questioned my building skills too much. This morning Bubba is ignoring me. I think he knows I'm faking it when I act afraid when he puffs up and hisses at me. If its ok I'm going to keep posting updates on Bubba here. here are a few pics of the Bubbs from yesterday.

His intense yellow and teals! Lovely!